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shortcuts in baja: good or evil?

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over the weekend me and some buddies were talking about racers who take shortcuts during baja races.some think its fair some think it is cheating.so considering there are a lot of people here in TT that race and/or are involved in racing,what is the general feeling when it comes to this issue???

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"Short-cuts" or faster lines? There are faster lines that run parallel with a lot of the horrendous whoops in the 250 course. Avoiding silt by taking outside lines is perfectly fine. I don't consider those cheating, I consider those doing your homework.

I say any deliberate attempt at reducing the total number of miles you cover in order to gain an advantage is cheating. This is where GPS tracking comes in handy, but it's not foolproof.

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"Short-cuts" or faster lines? There are faster lines that run parallel with a lot of the horrendous whoops in the 250 course. Avoiding silt by taking outside lines is perfectly fine. I don't consider those cheating, I consider those doing your homework.

I say any deliberate attempt at reducing the total number of miles you cover in order to gain an advantage is cheating. This is where GPS tracking comes in handy, but it's not foolproof.

Perfectly said! I think nljustin has said in few words how most of us feel on this subject. +1 RB.

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There are faster lines and there are "cuts".

Faster lines are always OK paralel to the course and help you avoid trouble. You need to prerunn to find them.

Then you have cuts. Those are real cheat lines they can cut miles from the course. Follow the top pros to find those.

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There are faster lines and there are "cuts".

Faster lines are always OK paralel to the course and help you avoid trouble. You need to prerunn to find them.

Then you have cuts. Those are real cheat lines they can cut miles from the course. Follow the top pros to find those.

cool! thanks for the answers guys.now i have a more educated answer because from a fans point of view it seems like luissuperdog's statement is the predominating feeling.mostly that last part.(dont want to throw out names,not my point)

going to the 250 this weekend and i'll camp by the whoops section at the beggining.cant wait!!!!

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Heres my take

If your in a sand wash matoami,azufre,huatamote any line you take is fair game.

If you cut a corner by a couple of feet your ok. Take a 1/2 mile out of the corner no bueno. I see this happening at RM 12 AND RM 150 at the bottom of matoami there was allready a nice bike line. cutting off the u turn.

I also see this happing after 3 poles. theres a wrong way to the left where the pole line is and it looked like it was allready getting burned in.

and after the last check point in huatamote there will be some creative lines to the finish.

I will be staying on course since Iam running a tracker.

good luck to all and have fun in matoami

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Nljustin said it right. Back in the day, it was anyway you could get to the check point was legal. I raced a section of the 1981 500 where after going over the Summit and pitting on Laguna Salada, (Nice and hot out on Laguna Salada in June eh?) there was a special section that was designated "Open" and anyway you wanted to get the the next check was legal.

With the population explosion in Baja and all of the new ranchos and associated fences Sal had to make the race course narrower and narrower to finally the rule was made that the race course has a specific width on either side of the course markings. Now the bottom line is that if you exceed that width you risk being DQed and too bad for you if you get caught. The GPS tracking has really brought more "control" to "short cuts" as well as speeding on the highway which IMHO is a good thing.

I remember back in the early 80's how the "factory" Husky riders complained about having to take some much time off of their day jobs to be able to pre-run enough to keep up with what the teams who had full time employed riders were dong for pre-running. Bruce "O" was the king of short cuts. AC Bakken used to complain about how many times he would pass Bruce in a race, but would NEVER see Bruce pass him...LOL!!! One of the main reasons he stepped away from racing Baja was that he couldn't afford to take a month off for each race to pre-run.

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"I remember back in the early 80's how the "factory" Husky riders complained about having to take some much time off of their day jobs to be able to pre-run enough to keep up with what the teams who had full time employed riders were dong for pre-running. Bruce "O" was the king of short cuts. AC Bakken used to complain about how many times he would pass Bruce in a race, but would NEVER see Bruce pass him...LOL!!! One of the main reasons he stepped away from racing Baja was that he couldn't afford to take a month off for each race to pre-run."

that rang a bell... jonnhy campbell seems to be the king of that now but i wonder how other riders feel about that,like hengeveld, bell, childress etc.etc.etc. who have been his teammates in the past and now face him in the race???in their case what would their approach be????

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........ The GPS tracking has really brought more "control" to "short cuts" as well as speeding on the highway which IMHO is a good thing.....

It has?? Seems to be thee most grey area on the race course.

... only do 'some' get penalized for speeding, or course cutting. And even worse... when racers are able to 'dispute another racer' (but only within 30min after the finish of their race) for using a known 'cut' and race officials do nothing about it. Let alone, if the 'tracking device' is functioning or not. Where's the penalties for a non-working device?? Ya know, the one that's mandatory for the race in the first place?!

... I say remove all tracking, and let the boys (and girls) race. Cheating, or not. At minimum, it'd save the racer some money and save the race officials some respect. Let the local law 'police' the roads and take care of the 'speed limits'. I bet less racers would speed if they knew they could be immediately ticketed, arrested, or bike impounded if caught!

Sorry, rant off. I'm not sure how the Vets turn a cheek... other than maybe the thought, "everyone's doing it". :p

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JAT, I was thinking about the TTs & Class 1's doing 150mph on the highway. Those days are finally behind us. Esp those sections like before Pepsi Stand or after Llano Colorado or coming out of Santo Thomas. Most of you guys are long gone before you had a chance to see the insanity of them running cars coming the other way off the highway.

Plenty of guys have been arrested including Post, Herbst, Phluger and others. That has all gone away with the tracker.

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JAT, I was thinking about the TTs & Class 1's doing 150mph on the highway. Those days are finally behind us. Esp those sections like before Pepsi Stand or after Llano Colorado or coming out of Santo Thomas. Most of you guys are long gone before you had a chance to see the insanity of them running cars coming the other way off the highway.

Plenty of guys have been arrested including Post, Herbst, Phluger and others. That has all gone away with the tracker.

I hear ya... and I was being a bit fescetious. In fact, I know the tracker has helped slow down the speed on highways somewhat... but again, it only works when it's powered up. :p

... those days of 'wide open speeds' on the highway were insane. I remember myself being caught up in a jam with Ivan Stewart behind me. Oh boy... white knuckled event for sure!

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If I were king :p, and I thank my lucky stars that I'm not, I would:

1. Keep the trackers, but have a mandatory requirement that all that data is available (and visible) on the Score website and 100% protestable by anyone in the same class within 24 hours. In other words, Fish needs to grow a pair.

2. Make a rule that if you have two tracker malfunctions in two races in the same year, your results are thrown out for the year. Lots of people seem to have problems with these things, but I think if it happens twice it's probably more of a case of where there's smoke there's fire.

3. Or get rid of trackers completely as JAT said, only use check points (blind checks and more of them) and whatever happens in between is the result of prerunning and doing your homework. Have a series of speed traps on the highways using handheld radar guns to keep things safe there.

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Speed traps are too labor intensive for SCORE. I remember when SCORE had a check point where you got on and off the pavement in a couple of different races. We put a pit in the middle and hauled arse, of course we later had a refueling system that was used to refuel the TT while it was moving down the pavement (thank God that got outlawed).

SCORE needs to step up with better tracking equipment and DQ anyone who's tracking equipment "breaks". The tracking data should be be available to everyone in your class, if not public, within the protest time limit.

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"I remember back in the early 80's how the "factory" Husky riders complained about having to take some much time off of their day jobs to be able to pre-run enough to keep up with what the teams who had full time employed riders were dong for pre-running. Bruce "O" was the king of short cuts. AC Bakken used to complain about how many times he would pass Bruce in a race, but would NEVER see Bruce pass him...LOL!!! One of the main reasons he stepped away from racing Baja was that he couldn't afford to take a month off for each race to pre-run."

that rang a bell... jonnhy campbell seems to be the king of that now but i wonder how other riders feel about that,like hengeveld, bell, childress etc.etc.etc. who have been his teammates in the past and now face him in the race???in their case what would their approach be????

The Husky Teams started all the Air Plane help during prerunning to locate faster lines.

Pre 1980

Wonder wear Bruce O and Honda Learned it from ??

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hahaha. i remember a funny youtube video about a news report of the mexican army finding a narco tunnel and and all of a sudden a bike comes blasting out, knocking about five soldiers out and its pastrana doing a double back flip! so i wonder if digging would be considered cheating..hahaha!

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So many people like to point the finger at Honda/Johnny....

Honda lines are Kawi lines are Husky lines are Yamaha lines are KTM lines are Suzuki lines are ATK lines (yeah, really). Insert top riders names as you see fit. Don't forget to include riders all thru the top 50.

How many of you have heard Sal say at a Drivers meeting, "just make the checkpoints" ? I have and I'm sure Stoli and Trogdor have. And if you are told to just make the checkpoints, do your homework, or not.

So nowadays..... I prefer the RallyTrack over the IRCrap because we paid far less, easier to use/mount, and there were actual penalties issued. I love having 60mph on Hwy for safety. With the RallyTrack (and penalties) it sure cuts down on pre-run time/expense. The only thing I can think of off hand that's good about the IRCrap is the emergency locator.

Oh, and I think that line R.Gordon took was great!

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