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Supercross Lets go back to A1 for a bit...

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EFI has had a huge impact on the supercross series this year. I was wrong when I said it wouldn't matter.

The results of Daytona or Atlanta are not nearly as important as the DNF that Stewart got in A1 because his bike wouldn't start. He hit his head just as hard at Daytona and still got some points out of the deal.

So... when James crashed at A1 and sat there kicking and kicking his bike, who made the decision to shut it down on 3 laps into the race? Did the race officials do that or did James decide to just call it a day. If he could have picked up 5 or 6 more points that day, he would be in a much better position.

Who made that call? Was it an official ruling or something?

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I think that its all up to Jame's right leg. Im not sure if the AMA cares if he starts on lap 19.

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It amazes me that these guys can kick those bikes as many times as they do. I wonder if it is something that they actually train for. I know that if I didn't have a button on my 450 it would never be started.

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EFI has had a huge impact on the supercross series this year. I was wrong when I said it wouldn't matter.

The results of Daytona or Atlanta are not nearly as important as the DNF that Stewart got in A1 because his bike wouldn't start.

How has EFI made a huge impact? I see guys with EFI have just as much trouble starting their bike as with carberated ones.

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I'm pretty sure that was just Bubba calling it quits. And I'm not sure the EFI bikes start that much better... K-dub was kicking away at his as well and through the season it looks like it's been pretty tough for these guys to get the bikes started EFI or not.

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EFI has had a huge impact on the supercross series this year. I was wrong when I said it wouldn't matter.

The results of Daytona or Atlanta are not nearly as important as the DNF that Stewart got in A1 because his bike wouldn't start. He hit his head just as hard at Daytona and still got some points out of the deal.

So... when James crashed at A1 and sat there kicking and kicking his bike, who made the decision to shut it down on 3 laps into the race? Did the race officials do that or did James decide to just call it a day. If he could have picked up 5 or 6 more points that day, he would be in a much better position.

Who made that call? Was it an official ruling or something?

So your point is soley based on the assumption that his bike would have started if it was efi ?

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one thing i am noticing and it may just be Reeds riding style vs James is Reed comes out of tight corners much faster.

James takes a bit longer to get going but when he does he's gone.

who knows if EFI is allowing Reed to get on the gas harder out of turns or not.

Riders don't plan on crashing or stalling so i would imagine they would rather have performance over ease of restarting in mid race.

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It amazes me that these guys can kick those bikes as many times as they do. I wonder if it is something that they actually train for. I know that if I didn't have a button on my 450 it would never be started.

They must have incredible leg strength because I tire out fairly quick when trying to kick my bike over after it's hot-especially when I'm already exhausted from riding.

I wiped out in a corner on my YZ 450 this weekend, and after 20 kicks or so, the bike still would not start. I even had a bud of mine who was not as tired as I was kick on it, and it still wouldn't start. So I had to just let the bike cool down for a few minutes. After letting the bike set for a few minutes, the bike fired up on the first kick. If that ever happened to me in a race, I would be done for. I can empathize with how Bubba felt at A1 because it is very frustrating when it happens.

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one thing i am noticing and it may just be Reeds riding style vs James is Reed comes out of tight corners much faster.

James takes a bit longer to get going but when he does he's gone.

who knows if EFI is allowing Reed to get on the gas harder out of turns or not.

Riders don't plan on crashing or stalling so i would imagine they would rather have performance over ease of restarting in mid race.

The purpose of EFI is for reliablity NOT performance. EFI will not make more power over a properly tuned carb, and I would guess if anyone can properly tune a carb it would be a factory team.

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Did anyone else notice at Daytona it looked like one of the Yamaha mechanics was holding his bike up while Stewart was kicking it so he could have his left foot on the peg. Just an observation.

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The purpose of EFI is for reliablity NOT performance. EFI will not make more power over a properly tuned carb, and I would guess if anyone can properly tune a carb it would be a factory team.

...unless the ambient temperature and/or humidity changes between the time the carburetor is adjusted and the end of the race. :p

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...unless the ambient temperature and/or humidity changes between the time the carburetor is adjusted and the end of the race. :p

Correct. But we're talking SX, it's only a 18 - 22 minute race, probably not enough factors changing in 20 minutes to warrant an adjustment. I was simply trying to dispell the rumor that efi means more power. In SX if the teams want more power there is a whole lot of changes they can make, the factory teams do not bring it all in the engine department. RC claimed that they tamed down his RMZ for SX.

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The purpose of EFI is for reliablity NOT performance. EFI will not make more power over a properly tuned carb, and I would guess if anyone can properly tune a carb it would be a factory team.

it is much easier to tune an EFI engine and get it perfect vs a carb.

computer vs human. also carbs have jets that limit the precise tuning to the precision of the jets. an EFI engine has a fuel injector and fuel mapping that is much more advanced then pins with holes in them.

and since weather is never ever constent EFI is much more advanced system.

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it is much easier to tune an EFI engine and get it perfect vs a carb.

computer vs human. also carbs have jets that limit the precise tuning to the precision of the jets. an EFI engine has a fuel injector and fuel mapping that is much more advanced then pins with holes in them.

and since weather is never ever constent EFI is much more advanced system.

Agreed 100%, efi is overall a much better system. That's why we don't see carbs on cars anymore. My point was simply that efi does not make hp. In a few years we won't see carbs at all and I look forward to that.

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Agreed 100%, efi is overall a much better system. That's why we don't see carbs on cars anymore. My point was simply that efi does not make hp. In a few years we won't see carbs at all and I look forward to that.

performance gains aren't just measured in HP in racing.

:p

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performance gains aren't just measured in HP in racing.

:p

I think we're on the same page here. I may have taken your first post wrong.

This is what threw me off.

quote by ClUTCHLESS

"who knows if EFI is allowing Reed to get on the gas harder out of turns or not."

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one thing i am noticing and it may just be Reeds riding style vs James is Reed comes out of tight corners much faster.James takes a bit longer to get going but when he does he's gone.

who knows if EFI is allowing Reed to get on the gas harder out of turns or not.

Riders don't plan on crashing or stalling so i would imagine they would rather have performance over ease of restarting in mid race.

Fuel injection may play part of a role in it, also Suzuki's chassis is also more agile in cornering situaions.

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EFI has had a huge impact on the supercross series this year. I was wrong when I said it wouldn't matter.

The results of Daytona or Atlanta are not nearly as important as the DNF that Stewart got in A1 because his bike wouldn't start. He hit his head just as hard at Daytona and still got some points out of the deal.

So... when James crashed at A1 and sat there kicking and kicking his bike, who made the decision to shut it down on 3 laps into the race? Did the race officials do that or did James decide to just call it a day. If he could have picked up 5 or 6 more points that day, he would be in a much better position.

Who made that call? Was it an official ruling or something?

My guess would be the "seeing stars factor". Maybe the urgency of getting back into he race causes these guys to twist the throttle while they're kicking. I don't know, when I go down no throttle and holding in the hot start while I kick gets me back in business in 4-5 kicks.

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I think we're on the same page here. I may have taken your first post wrong.

This is what threw me off.

quote by ClUTCHLESS

"who knows if EFI is allowing Reed to get on the gas harder out of turns or not."

we are fully on the same page. i wasn't thinking HP gains from the EFI but reduced lag time in throttle response and also reduced "carb bog".

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Fuel injection may play part of a role in it, also Suzuki's chassis is also more agile in cornering situaions.

and coming from a YZ that is known to be a slug in the turns to the Suzuki probably helps him a bunch too.

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