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New breed of 2 stroke no smokes?

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Certain companies have been playing with 2 strokes that have a oil sump much like a 4-stroke for a while now. DFI 2 strokes are nothing new and neither are forced induction 2-strokes. Since the MX bikes are now fuel injected im waiting for a smokeless 2 stroke to destroy all and take over the market. Heck theres even talk of them making it into the auto world. I think i read an article from Toyota a while back involving a blown two stroke with a dry sump oil system. Some people think...whats the next big thing in powersports engines. I think this will be it.

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i've always wanted to turbo my CR250 for fun, but i think jetting and pipe selection would be a nightmare... might save the idea for my 82 toyota corolla.

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I think i read an article from Toyota a while back involving a blown two stroke with a dry sump oil system.

All 2-strokes are supercharged. I also know of many "blown" and even turbocharged 2-strokes with dry-sump oiling.

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So lets think this a bit farther than just bringing back the 2 stroke. Right now 2 strokes are simple pieces of MX machinery. Easy to work on, reliable and put a lot of HP for the weight.

So manufacturers sink millions into development, the AMA quits being retarded and allows 2 strokes a fighting chance again. What happens to the simple, cheap easy to work on 2 stroke? Yeah it will be gone. It will have some many computerized gizmos, pumps, servos and 02 sensors on the bike that it will NOT be cheap to work on anymore.

Really the AMA started the problem of the 2 stroke, then the public finished them off. Just be glad that you still can get a good used one and a few manufacturer's still make some 85s for our kids to learn how to ride on properly.

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So lets think this a bit farther than just bringing back the 2 stroke. Right now 2 strokes are simple pieces of MX machinery. Easy to work on, reliable and put a lot of HP for the weight.

So manufacturers sink millions into development, the AMA quits being retarded and allows 2 strokes a fighting chance again. What happens to the simple, cheap easy to work on 2 stroke? Yeah it will be gone. It will have some many computerized gizmos, pumps, servos and 02 sensors on the bike that it will NOT be cheap to work on anymore.

Really the AMA started the problem of the 2 stroke, then the public finished them off. Just be glad that you still can get a good used one and a few manufacturer's still make some 85s for our kids to learn how to ride on properly.

Yeah i agree... the last thing we want is to see 2 strokes over-developed... things like fuel injection, etc in my opinion force the home mechanic either to buy ridiculously expensive tools, or pay for routine servicing which they used to be able to do themselves. Sure these add ons might develop more power, but at what cost to the DIYer?

The few times i've had to deal with fuel injection on a 4 stroke (CRF and RMZ) they were hard to start, stalled easily and power difference was negligible, they also have tiny fuel tanks and are prone to elec problems. I'm sure not convinced yet and will be sticking with carbs for a long time yet.

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its not about power. its about traction. thats why a 450 can beat a 500 on a small-medium sized track anyday.

but! i hope this does happen. cause id be down to buy a 2010 rm 250

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Yeah i agree... the last thing we want is to see 2 strokes over-developed... things like fuel injection, etc in my opinion force the home mechanic either to buy ridiculously expensive tools, or pay for routine servicing which they used to be able to do themselves. Sure these add ons might develop more power, but at what cost to the DIYer?

The few times i've had to deal with fuel injection on a 4 stroke (CRF and RMZ) they were hard to start, stalled easily and power difference was negligible, they also have tiny fuel tanks and are prone to elec problems. I'm sure not convinced yet and will be sticking with carbs for a long time yet.

an expensive 2 stroke is better then NO 2 stroke

there can always be a cr 250r AND a cr 250x

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its not about power. its about traction. thats why a 450 can beat a 500 on a small-medium sized track anyday.

but! i hope this does happen. cause id be down to buy a 2010 rm 250

Well, funny thing is that the factory 450's are making more horsepower than the 500's ever did and they are more tractable. But I still prefer my 2-stroke for its overall performance to price ratio.

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To the guy talking about the new fuel injected bikes and anybody else. Yamaha is number one in the series right now with the last of the carbureted bikes, what does that say to you? In pro-stock drag racing, they still run carburetors because the carburetors make about 2-5% more power than the injected cars. There is technology and there is refined technology.

To the supercharged Toyota guy, every 2-stroke requires a supercharged fuel/air mixture to drive scavenging because they do not have dedicated strokes like a 4-stroke. You dirt bike uses under piston supercharging. The dry sump Toyota uses a supercharger because the dry sump automatically rules out under piston supercharging. Look at any Detroit Diesel or EMD engine. They use roots blowers with conventional oiling systems instead of premix and underpiston supercharging.

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To the guy talking about the new fuel injected bikes and anybody else. Yamaha is number one in the series right now with the last of the carbureted bikes, what does that say to you? In pro-stock drag racing, they still run carburetors because the carburetors make about 2-5% more power than the injected cars. There is technology and there is refined technology.

To the supercharged Toyota guy, every 2-stroke requires a supercharged fuel/air mixture to drive scavenging because they do not have dedicated strokes like a 4-stroke. You dirt bike uses under piston supercharging. The dry sump Toyota uses a supercharger because the dry sump automatically rules out under piston supercharging. Look at any Detroit Diesel or EMD engine. They use roots blowers with conventional oiling systems instead of premix and underpiston supercharging.

Im quite aware that properly carburated engines actually make more horsepower. The reason i say DFI is because of the aplication. EPA regulations are coming on all the time. Unless you plan on changing jets every time you ride then DFI will need to be there to keep it clean and in the right tune. I personally dont own a singel vehical with injectors but DFI will make this engine if it ever comes out which wont be out anytime soon. Yes I realize how the intake would have to work. A turbo would not work well since starting wouldnt produce boost. A roots or driven turbo would be needed. There are also ideas of a controlled valve to let crankcase induction in during start up via enclosed tunnels conected to the transfer ports while a ECU controlled valve seals off the blower untill the engine is ready for it.

I like my simple 2 strokes too but you cant make one too simple that doesnt burn oil. The object here is to get the best of both worlds. The power of a two stroke that doesnt burn oil, not to make something as simple as possible.

My 41 ford pickup is simple but i dont see that coming back into showrooms.

As a former R&D engineer I am excited and hope these engines are applied to something. 2 strokes are not the smelly weed wacker people remember. Mercury Optimax 2 strokes make more power and throughout the entire rpm curve than the 4 strokes and do so using less fuel and making better emissions!

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To the guy talking about the new fuel injected bikes and anybody else. Yamaha is number one in the series right now with the last of the carbureted bikes, what does that say to you? In pro-stock drag racing, they still run carburetors because the carburetors make about 2-5% more power than the injected cars. There is technology and there is refined technology.

To the supercharged Toyota guy, every 2-stroke requires a supercharged fuel/air mixture to drive scavenging because they do not have dedicated strokes like a 4-stroke. You dirt bike uses under piston supercharging. The dry sump Toyota uses a supercharger because the dry sump automatically rules out under piston supercharging. Look at any Detroit Diesel or EMD engine. They use roots blowers with conventional oiling systems instead of premix and underpiston supercharging.

I thought Chad is in the lead now (as of 3/12/09), with the FI Suzuki?

:)

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Certain companies have been playing with 2 strokes that have a oil sump much like a 4-stroke for a while now. DFI 2 strokes are nothing new and neither are forced induction 2-strokes. Since the MX bikes are now fuel injected im waiting for a smokeless 2 stroke to destroy all and take over the market. Heck theres even talk of them making it into the auto world. I think i read an article from Toyota a while back involving a blown two stroke with a dry sump oil system. Some people think...whats the next big thing in powersports engines. I think this will be it.

I cannot wait to see what KTM brings to the table with a direct injected two-stroke dirtbike!

BUT with out the good grace of the AMA the two-stroke is dead.:)

The Japanese have heavily invested in the the four-stroke, (for example Honda's new 450R) buy dropping manufacturing costs, also it is perceived to be a better motor for the environment, and has turned out to be a great motor for racing. So you can bet with the big four building four-strokes, they will dictate the AMA to keep the displacement advantage for the four-stroke engine.

I also can see the new FI DI two-stroke KTM's changing the game for off-roaders. If the marketplace buys them up, and it seems that some people are going back to two-strokes, we may see a two-stroke revival.

:banghead:

The next big thing in powersports as to engines... Wait for it...

The all new, high-revving, lighter, more expensive...

FI 350cc four-stroke.

:banghead:

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So lets think this a bit farther than just bringing back the 2 stroke. Right now 2 strokes are simple pieces of MX machinery. Easy to work on, reliable and put a lot of HP for the weight.

So manufacturers sink millions into development, the AMA quits being retarded and allows 2 strokes a fighting chance again. What happens to the simple, cheap easy to work on 2 stroke? Yeah it will be gone. It will have some many computerized gizmos, pumps, servos and 02 sensors on the bike that it will NOT be cheap to work on anymore.

Really the AMA started the problem of the 2 stroke, then the public finished them off. Just be glad that you still can get a good used one and a few manufacturer's still make some 85s for our kids to learn how to ride on properly.

It's not about them being retarted, it all comes back to the pussification of America. This country is run by people who have nothing better to do then whine and complain about something that they couldn't even attempt to do. 2ts are going the way of the dodo bird because of their emissions, which is stupid, yes their emissions are not great but what about diesels, and the factory's that make all of these low emission vehicles. This country needs to regrow a set and tell everyone who bitches about something stupid to shove it and find a hobby that doesn't involve complaining.

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It's not about them being retarted, it all comes back to the pussification of America. This country is run by people who have nothing better to do then whine and complain about something that they couldn't even attempt to do. 2ts are going the way of the dodo bird because of their emissions, which is stupid, yes their emissions are not great but what about diesels, and the factory's that make all of these low emission vehicles. This country needs to regrow a set and tell everyone who bitches about something stupid to shove it and find a hobby that doesn't involve complaining.

Amen brother! Preach on!

I'm tired of letting the minority of this country have the final say on what is good for us. :)

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They complain about the emissions from a 2-stroke, then they complain about the noise of a 4-stroke. It's a never ending battle. We just speng $6 grand on a dirt bike, why can't they spend the same on triple paned windows for their house so they can enjoy being sit-ins and we can enjoy our dirt bikes.

It only takes one person to complain to ruin everybody's fun.

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Has any one ever checked out Rotax's 600 E-Tec ski-doo engine.it is smoke less and makes about 130hp.iv seen it the guy started it right up in the showroom and there was no smoke!if ktm or someone made an engine something like that I think we would be in bussiness

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I may be wrong but Injected engines do make more power than carburated engines...Pro stock runs carburators because rules state that they have to...Top fuel engines are injected makine more than 6000 hp...I know that is on nitromethane and Prostock is on Gasoline. Carburators are easier to make horsepower with for the average joe than fuel injectors but when properly designed and tuned, fuel injected engines have the capability to make more power than carburators and with much better driveability..

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I may be wrong but Injected engines do make more power than carburated engines...Pro stock runs carburators because rules state that they have to...Top fuel engines are injected makine more than 6000 hp...I know that is on nitromethane and Prostock is on Gasoline. Carburators are easier to make horsepower with for the average joe than fuel injectors but when properly designed and tuned, fuel injected engines have the capability to make more power than carburators and with much better driveability..

Top fuel engines have to be injected because you can't draw that much fuel through an orifice using a venturi. But, Pro stock are allowed to use injection but the carbureted motors make more horsepower.

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Has any one ever checked out Rotax's 600 E-Tec ski-doo engine.it is smoke less and makes about 130hp.iv seen it the guy started it right up in the showroom and there was no smoke!if ktm or someone made an engine something like that I think we would be in bussiness

A lot of people make engines like that: Evinrude, Mercury... The question is, can you convince the manufacturers to produce a bike that is going to be at an almost 50% displacement handicap. Afterall, there is no replacement for displacement.

Just so you know, I will only renew my AMA membership because I want to go racing but I would prefer to race other non-AMA races if they did not have a monopoly in my area.

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"I thought Chad is in the lead now (as of 3/12/09), with the FI Suzuki?" Put Stewy on a 05 KX250 and no one would have a chance.:)

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