XR650L Hi comp + hotcam starting

[uranys]

In my L I have a 10.5:1 piston with a hotcam. When it was stock it cranked and started fine. With the mods and the loss of the cam decompressor, the e-start can barely crank the engine over.

I've seen posts from others that have the same problem, but also posts from people that say they have no issues, but it's hard to tell if they are running a similar setup.

So if your running a hi compression piston with the hotcam on the L, i'd like to hear how long you've been running it and if you've had any starting problems.

Thanks

[absynth01]

Piston, cam, rod, carb, big gun evo-x. I use a moose powermax gel battery. It has more cca's. It is said to "recharge" itself-which it will, but not fully. On my bike you have about 8 seconds. If it doesn't fire, you start looking into why. I haven't been stranded yet, but always have that in the back of my mind.

[Natnewt]

can you provide the spec for your battery? i am after doing all these mods an i am wondering about a gel...not only for the motor but i cam doing an under seat battery box for it as well and would rather a gel than acid battery. i have heard odessey batteries but thats it... im guessing i can get any size battery to fit as long as it has 130 cca and more than 0.6 amps?

[Research Rat]

I performed those same mods on my motor with a 1mm overbore and my stock battery would turn it over ok.

Did you rejet with the addition of the mods? If so, what settings?

Did you try jumping the bike with a second motorcycle battery attached to yours via jumper cables? If it quickly turns, it could be your battery.

-Scott

[uranys]

Yeah, I rejeted. I have the factory kit (same sizes as keihin). 55 pilot, needle in the 3rd slot from the bottom and 162 main. Looking at the plug, it's a little lean on top, but not too bad. I think a 164 would be right on.

The PO contended that the battery was new, and it looks it (It's a Yuasa). I didn't try jumping it, but i'm sure it would help some. I cranked it with the kill switch on to see how long it would last, and it did 9 revolutions before it didn't have any juice left.

I'm worried dropping the bike at the bottom of a ravine (there are many around here) and having the battery crap out.

[lateapex31]

I had my air intake boot loose last week after some work and my L cranked for probably 5 minutes (intermittently) before the starter began to spin noticeably slower. Maybe your battery is dead?

[dubkatz]

yea your battery is the answer to to problem/question. get the best and biggest battery you can fit, and you shouldnt have any problems. If any thing the new cam should make starting easer because of the increased valve overlap.

[racer624]

Just finished up the same install with a 101mm JE piston and I have the same cranking problem.I just bought a new battery(Yuasa YTX9-BS) today for the bike and it doesn't crank it any better than the battery I took out.I checked the compression and it is close to 182.When to bike starts it runs great with tons of power any suggestion to this problem.

[uranys]

My theory on why the L's flywheel is so much heavier that the 600r's is to help starting. The cam auto decompressor allows the engine to get up to 300 rpm before dis-engaging, at that time the flywheel has enough inertia to overcome compression at tdc.

I think there are a few possible solutions:

1) Fit the auto-decompressor on to the hotcam. I'm not sure if this can be done. I don't remember if the hotcam has a press on gear face like the stock cam, but if it does, this should be possible. I'm not sure what machining needs to be done because I've never removed the decompressor from the stock cam. I think I read another thread where someone else was considering this a few weeks ago.

2) Add the manual compression release valve cover and lever from a 600r. This is probably what I will do as I have an extra cover with manual release. Pull the lever, hit the start button, let the engine build up some speed then release the lever.

3) Better battery - find a battery that fits with more CCA's (probably like 25% more) than the stocker. I don't think this is a good solution as I think it will probably reduce the life of the battery and the starter.

Any other ideas?

[absynth01]

I was tossing around last year looking into a different starter. Either one with a larger gear(if it would fit the case area), or a more amp starter either by rewinding or a drop fit. The downfall to the larger gear would be clearance @ the starter itself(if swapping the starter gear), or the dimension to bolt up if trying to use a different starter. The "larger" amp starter seems easier, but you will probably need a larger battery anyways. I already have a larger battery. I just keep the L on a battery tender for now. I've got a 04 R ? I am working on now and have sidelined the L for now.

My wifes dr350es cranks like a madman, and would never even question a no start situation. It is a stocker and smaller motor so that doesn't count though.

[Kenzo]

since sum have this problem and others do not...i wud double check all of the battery, starter and solenoid connections

clean up the connections and a little bit of dielectric grease wudn't hurt ether... ?

...also having pilot/fuel screw circuit jetted and adjusted perfect is a plus.

[uranys]

Absynth,

If you find a more powerful starter that fits please let me know where you got it!

I had a 1999 dr350se. It's e-start would crank forever! After a few years of wet riding and stream crossings, some water and sediment found it's way into the started and I had to replace it. Luckily it flaked out slowly and didn't strand me.

Kenzo,

That's good advice. I'm going to clean and re-wire everything when I put the e-start motor back in. I also plan on taking the starter apart and giving it the once over.

I should have specified that I have the JE 10.5:1 piston. From what I've read here the Wiseco 10.25:1 piston is not really 10.25:1 and is more like the stock. I don't think people running Wiseco/hotcam would have the same issues.

[Research Rat]

You shouldn't require a larger starter. Could me your's is in need of servicing.

Keep in mind that a larger starter will take up more room, and might encroach on space needed for carb. A larger starter might prohibit you from upgrading to a pumper carb later. Something to keep in mind.

-Scott

[absynth01]

yeah thinking about it now I think ,for me, modifying the stock starter is the better route. I will talk to my tech @ work to see what technically can be done. Using a pumper carb may be an issue with fitment as said if you use a bigger housing starter.

Don't get me wrong, I have not been stranded yet. I just don't like thinking about a big wipeout and needing more crank time to get going-especially a wipeout in a valley where it is not bump startable. I have checked all connections, battery, carb, all the way to the starter. It is possible the starter needs a rebuild, but my L only has a few thousand miles. I will have to look at it internally.

[Baxter650]

I had the 671cc 10.25:1 stage 1 combo as well, i replaced the cables with lager ones normally used for wiring car amps.

As you may have found, it turns over faster with no choke so i rejetted with a fatter primary jet and used less choke.

In cold weather i would also use a small space heater pointed at the engine over night.

[Baxter650]

Maybe i should have also said mine has over 45,000kms on it total, 6,000 of that with all the engine mods.

Good luck.

Vince

[absynth01]

I looked around for some rewind info for the starter. It can be done, but with a few other things to look at. I can have a buddy do the work, but as he brought up, you cant go to big. There is a potential for snapping the starter shaft, or shear the pin-on gear(if it has one). The big question is since we all have common builds, some have problems-some don't, is there another area to look at. A common tactic at my company is to bid out parts for our assemblies. This causes different year parts to have their own weaknesses. I'm wondering now if there is a potential that some of us have a "honda" starter that is sub-par. If honda does their starter assemblies all inhouse, chances are they are fairly consistent. With the newer "L"'s, I wonder if honda has offshored some components to a less quality ie China country. Perhaps we should look into which years and which manufacturers. I'm guessing any winding assembly is probably done by certain companies. That is the way it is done in the auto industry anyhow.?

[Natnewt]

mines an 06 and cranks fine.

[absynth01]

so far my 04 seems to have multiple vin code possibilities, and multiple listings for the starter assemblies years 2000-on. Up to 2000 is pretty much the same part. Looks like 04 and 05 had the most type of parts variation. Honda now has 1 part number for a parts replacement for all 650l's starters. Great I have an 04'!!?

[racer624]

Mine is an 07 and the only way to start the pig after the upgrades is turn the kill switch on until the motor get cranking over then turn the switch to the run position and it fires overy time.