COW Lies trying to get attention In Kern

[Wayne_Nosala]

http://www.bakersfield.com/1435/story/718155.html

Rein in inconsiderate off-roaders

The Bakersfield Californian | Monday, Mar 16 2009 7:03 PM

Last Updated: Monday, Mar 16 2009 7:05 PM

A quiet war has broken out, nationwide and in Kern County, pitting private property owners defending their land and publicly owned natural resources, against illegal off-road vehicle marauders. We need a county ordinance that will give our law enforcement officers the tools they need to stop the lawlessness.

The illegal use of off-road recreational vehicles, or ORVs, is causing extensive damage to private property and businesses. Many of these riders come from L.A., San Bernardino and other areas and use our private property as their playgrounds.

Our organization, ORV Watch Kern County (www.orvwatchkerncounty.com), does not oppose legal and responsible riding in designated areas. But illegal riders are trespassing on private lands, destroying native plants and wildlife, and threatening people's livelihoods. In short, illegal riders are involved in nothing short of eco-terrorism.

Think that's the charge of an extremist? Consider the following:

* There are an estimated 36 million registered all-terrain vehicles nationwide. From 1993 to 2003, the number of off-road vehicle users increased 174 percent.

* According to the California Air Resources Board, ORVs produce 118 times the amount of smog-forming pollutants caused by automobiles.

* ORVs have inflicted irreparable harm on wildlife habitats, vegetation, soil, water, geologic features, artifacts, and even archaeological sites. For example, studies conducted during 2004-2006 regarding ORVs in Red Rock Canyon State Park revealed "extensive" damage to 36 archaeological sites, as well as enduring scars, from off-road vehicles, leading to soil erosion, displacement and pollution.

* According to biologists, the attempted restoration of damages caused by ORV use in one area of the Mojave Desert (Dove Springs) would cost an estimated $33 million.

* Businesses and public agencies in Kern County have not escaped destructive activities by illegal off-roaders. Wind energy companies in the Tehachapi region, for example, sustained tens of thousands of dollars in damages during 2008 alone at the hands of those engaging in illegal off-road activity. Representatives from Edwards Air Force Base, Tejon Ranch Co. and other businesses have also reported significant losses.

* Meanwhile, homeowners and ranchers throughout Kern County, in places like Oak Creek, Sand Canyon, Oak Knolls, Golden Hills, Rosamond and California City are being terrorized by weekend off-road warriors who harass, threaten and destroy private land.

Why is this clash occurring? The sale of ORVs has increased dramatically and law enforcement cannot keep up with the invasion. Authorities have asked for new, stronger laws with stiffer fines to deal with the growing problem and to stop violent clashes between riders and residents. Law enforcement officials in San Bernardino County, frustrated with the ORV problem, passed a fair and effective ordinance with the input of property owners, conservationists, off-road enthusiasts and lobbyists. The ordinance was initiated by the county due to problems with ORVs and their impacts on county services.

Another huge concern is the costs of wildfires, emergency medical treatment and restoration to damaged private and public property. The San Bernardino County ordinance was passed unanimously by its board of supervisors and is supported by responsible riders and vendors.

What we need in Kern County is an ordinance that would both allow law enforcement to cleanly and efficiently administer justice for property owners while protecting the legitimate rights of law-abiding off-road enthusiasts. Such an ordinance would perform an end run around cumbersome current laws and provide law enforcement with the tools they need to protect our communities.

According to San Bernardino County code enforcement officials, the Sheriff's Department and elected officials, the San Bernardino ordinance has been a big success.

We need leadership from our elected officials here to move ahead and adopt an ordinance that will protect our quality of life and the land we have worked to hard to call our home.

Mesonika Piecuch, a registered nurse who lives in Tehachapi, is spokeswoman for ORV Watch Kern County.

[kjpiel]

Phil Klasky (COW) and his followers will lie threw their teeth and twist reality into a perspective friendly to there cause of banning all OHV use. This is a repeat of what we have seen in San Bernardino County.

IM sorry my Kern County friends but this group will require monitoring on a daily basis. Its like a cance that will not go away. We have fought the COW cancer for years in San Bernardino County and it has spread to Kern county.

As with any cancer you will need to treat it and together we will see the results. You will first need to google Phil Klasky, Desert protective councel, peer and many other OHV hate groups.

This is Phil Klasky and he is not wearing a hood.

[kjpiel]

Phil Klasky will retreat but not go away.

[Beyond The Pale]

The paper really needs to be taken to task on this one. (EDIT: I see that this was posted in a user forum, and it was not something written by the paper)

Was this a story, or was it a letter to the editor or something? It's very very biased journalism filled with what looks to me to be outright lies.

[Wayne_Nosala]

The paper really needs to be taken to task on this one. (EDIT: I see that this was posted in a user forum, and it was not something written by the paper)

Was this a story, or was it a letter to the editor or something? It's very very biased journalism filled with what looks to me to be outright lies.

It ran in the Bakersfield newspaper as shown

Wayne

[Dust_Devil]

If that ran in the regular section of the paper, they (the californian) needs to be strung up. It must be a letter to the editor or something.

[Bill_P]

If that ran in the regular section of the paper, they (the californian) needs to be strung up. It must be a letter to the editor or something.

There is so much wrong with that, that even thinking about answering it hurts my head too much to even reply.....?

[socalmatt]

There is so much wrong with that, that even thinking about answering it hurts my head too much to even reply.....?

Ditto that, this hurts my head. Talk about some seriously false statements that give out the wrong message about OHV's.

And I agree, the Californian paper editor should be accountable and punched in the face......sorry couldnt hold back. Im gonna send the editor a love letter.

[slowstepper]

cut the knee jerk reactions and demonizations. this is a real problem - ORV people tearing up peoples private land. This has nothing to do with public lands closed to riding - this has to do with farmers and ranchers and windpower companies being trespassed by ignorant ORV people who cut or run over fences and destroy public property. If you think that is acceptable behavior - please give me your address - I will be over tommorrow to trench out your front lawn - maybe run over your mail box, terrorize your dog - you know - all of the stuff that happens to the private property owners!

I used to allow motorcycles and quads on my puny 40 acres - thanks to some inconsiderate ******** costing me about 500 bucks worth of fencing and a 1000 dollar vet bill to fix up my kids terrorized horse - now if you show up on my land - the sherriff is there within 5 minutes!

use your heads - all of the negative reactions you see from Government and private people is a result of ignorant or destructive behavior by some of your fellow peers - you ride off trail - throw trash around - terrorize horseback riders - what do you think will happen?

Your right to ride does not superceed anyone elses rights to the same public lands - and your "right to Ride" certainly does not extend to private property.

Start holding the ******* riders accountable - call em out for poor behavior, thats how you will preserve your right to ride. This sitting around pontificating and blowing crap all over the screen is not helping anyone.

take an active role in solving the problem!

carl Johansson

Yah - I'll put on the nomex and watch as a bunch of aholes try to blow me up for actually having the gall to hold them accountable!

[Beyond The Pale]

All I can say is pot meet kettle.

Recently you Mr. Johansson were asking about riding near Primm Nv. I bet that you don't know that some of it is private property. Have you contacted the landowners for permission? A bunch of the land is now under the planning process for mega solar power projects. Have you contacted those companies about your planned rides? Have you studied the BLM maps for where the trails are? You know almost any "singletrack" out there would be "off-trail," right?

I'm not defending anyone who damages private property, including yours. However, you have got to see that it's just not as black and white as your post seems to indicate.

There are idiots everywhere. They are universal. Unfortunately some ride OHV of various sorts. I've never done the things that you mention in your post. Niether have the majority of those reading your post.

Do you actually ride, or are you here for other purposes?

[Dust_Devil]

Someone had to say it, cleonard just did it much nicer than I would have.

BESIDES....

Who in this thread or any other advocates riding on private property??????

Answer.......NOBODY!! (please post links if you have them)

A post like that is about as full of misinformaton and hysterics as by any other anti-access/eco freak's.....blahhhh blahhhhh blahhhhhh waaaaahhhhh somebody calll the wambulance!!!

[socalmatt]

cut the knee jerk reactions and demonizations. this is a real problem - ORV people tearing up peoples private land. This has nothing to do with public lands closed to riding - this has to do with farmers and ranchers and windpower companies being trespassed by ignorant ORV people who cut or run over fences and destroy public property. If you think that is acceptable behavior - please give me your address - I will be over tommorrow to trench out your front lawn - maybe run over your mail box, terrorize your dog - you know - all of the stuff that happens to the private property owners!

I used to allow motorcycles and quads on my puny 40 acres - thanks to some inconsiderate ******** costing me about 500 bucks worth of fencing and a 1000 dollar vet bill to fix up my kids terrorized horse - now if you show up on my land - the sherriff is there within 5 minutes!

use your heads - all of the negative reactions you see from Government and private people is a result of ignorant or destructive behavior by some of your fellow peers - you ride off trail - throw trash around - terrorize horseback riders - what do you think will happen?

Your right to ride does not superceed anyone elses rights to the same public lands - and your "right to Ride" certainly does not extend to private property.

Start holding the ******* riders accountable - call em out for poor behavior, thats how you will preserve your right to ride. This sitting around pontificating and blowing crap all over the screen is not helping anyone.

take an active role in solving the problem!

carl Johansson

Yah - I'll put on the nomex and watch as a bunch of aholes try to blow me up for actually having the gall to hold them accountable!

Nobody here condones riding on provate property and tearing things up, thats just rediculous. I for one am all for any property owner protecting his land and using it for whatever he wants and keeping out whoever he wants, its your land. The big problem with that article is all of the false statements presented as truths, this hurts the OHV'ers that are law abiding and who are environmentally aware.

If anything, you should be on our side helping us keep the trails we have. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to predict what will happen in the next 10 years when OHV use has gone up 174 percent in the last 10 years, and we keep losing trails. I'm not saying its right and I don't condone riding on private property, but you had better buy a bigger gate if we lose more riding areas.

[kjpiel]

Other purpose is my guess ?

[kjpiel]

Nobody here condones riding on provate property and tearing things up, thats just rediculous.

If anything, you should be on our side helping us keep the trails we have.

[slowstepper]

To aswer your question, well I'm kind of a newbie at dirt riding - only been doing it since 1970. My first bike was a orange dual sport suzuki 250 - followed by an Elsinore when they first came out.

We do seem to agree that the problem is caused by a few inconsiderate riders and their bad behaviors. So I guess i don't understand why you think you need to try and belittle me! All I am saying is that we need to find ways to hold these people accountable - or we will all pay the price. I guess my 2 main points are: is

1. that closing of land to ORV riding is a reaction to bad behaviors - not some sort of secret government plot to take away our freedoms!

2. Riding is a privledge and a right that does not supeceed any other individuals rights. Every national forest has ORV riding trails - at least those I am familiar with, BLm land has mega miles of accessable and legal trails to ride on - but if we allow the privledge to be abused - we stand the chance of loosing them! A logger cannot go into public land and cut down all the trees, and a miner cannot go open up a pit mine anywhere - and ORV riders cannot indecriminantly go anywhere and everywhere they fee like!

I do know that some of the property around Primm is private - and I do use a BLM trails map, thats why I posted asking if I could pick up the newest edition in Baker on my way over! Much of that land on both sides of the freeway between Primm and Vegas has also been bought up in anticipation of the building of the new airport - and I am aware of that as well. Many of the solar and windpower sites you speak of will actually be on public land, usually on BLM land - with the companies getting leases, after the sites get approval from the agency that oversees it ( I do alot of consulting for these companies - so I do have a rudimentary understanding of how it is structured).

Why not go back and read the article. It's about stopping ORV's from damaging private property! There are some ancillary statements there that are missleading - the polution figures are actually accurate - if you compare one ORV to one car - but thats not a valid comparison - it needs to be total amounts released by each. And several other of the statements have a bias to them - I agree. But the problem is real - and it will have a negative effect on closing down public riding areas for people like you who do not engage in this behavior. My point is that if we as responsible riders do nothing to rein in the few riders who habitually show no concern for rules regulations, other people etc, we will all pay the price!

Carl Johansson

oh look at that - he's stupid enough to use his real name - so every one can hold him accountable - imagine that!

All I can say is pot meet kettle.

Recently you Mr. Johansson were asking about riding near Primm Nv. I bet that you don't know that some of it is private property. Have you contacted the landowners for permission? A bunch of the land is now under the planning process for mega solar power projects. Have you contacted those companies about your planned rides? Have you studied the BLM maps for where the trails are? You know almost any "singletrack" out there would be "off-trail," right?

I'm not defending anyone who damages private property, including yours. However, you have got to see that it's just not as black and white as your post seems to indicate.

There are idiots everywhere. They are universal. Unfortunately some ride OHV of various sorts. I've never done the things that you mention in your post. Niether have the majority of those reading your post.

Do you actually ride, or are you here for other purposes?

[slowstepper]

I am on your side. I'm pointing out that unless we control the lunatic fringe - it will have serious impacts on our riding options! If we do not police ourselves as a group - then a government agency will step in and do it, with bad effects for everyone!

The video does a great job of establishing the norms and expectations - now if we can just get riders to recognize the consequences of not following common courtesies we would be in great shape!

Carl Johansson

[Bill_P]

Before you do that, why not go back and read the article. It's about stopping ORV's from damaging private property!

No, it's about exaggerating and inflaming the facts (which are not in existance in the article) completely out of control.

[Greenroom]

Sorry guy's, but this all sounds like a bunch of Mad Max stuff to me. ? If you get back to the article it is the most alarmist, egagerated and misleading dribble I have ever read. (sorry not much af a speller)

[Beyond The Pale]

To aswer your question, well I'm kind of a newbie at dirt riding - only been doing it since 1970. My first bike was a orange dual sport suzuki 250 - followed by an Elsinore when they first came out.

We do seem to agree that the problem is caused by a few inconsiderate riders and their bad behaviors. So I guess i don't understand why you think you need to try and belittle me! All I am saying is that we need to find ways to hold these people accountable - or we will all pay the price. I guess my 2 main points are: is

1. that closing of land to ORV riding is a reaction to bad behaviors - not some sort of secret government plot to take away our freedoms!

2. Riding is a privledge and a right that does not supeceed any other individuals rights. Every national forest has ORV riding trails - at least those I am familiar with, BLm land has mega miles of accessable and legal trails to ride on - but if we allow the privledge to be abused - we stand the chance of loosing them! A logger cannot go into public land and cut down all the trees, and a miner cannot go open up a pit mine anywhere - and ORV riders cannot indecriminantly go anywhere and everywhere they fee like!

I do know that some of the property around Primm is private - and I do use a BLM trails map, thats why I posted asking if I could pick up the newest edition in Baker on my way over! Much of that land on both sides of the freeway between Primm and Vegas has also been bought up in anticipation of the building of the new airport - and I am aware of that as well. Many of the solar and windpower sites you speak of will actually be on public land, usually on BLM land - with the companies getting leases, after the sites get approval from the agency that oversees it ( I do alot of consulting for these companies - so I do have a rudimentary understanding of how it is structured).

Why not go back and read the article. It's about stopping ORV's from damaging private property! There are some ancillary statements there that are missleading - the polution figures are actually accurate - if you compare one ORV to one car - but thats not a valid comparison - it needs to be total amounts released by each. And several other of the statements have a bias to them - I agree. But the problem is real - and it will have a negative effect on closing down public riding areas for people like you who do not engage in this behavior. My point is that if we as responsible riders do nothing to rein in the few riders who habitually show no concern for rules regulations, other people etc, we will all pay the price!

Carl Johansson

oh look at that - he's stupid enough to use his real name - so every one can hold him accountable - imagine that!

Not trying to "belittle" you. If that had been my purpose I would have written in a completely different manner. I was just trying to show you that as far as private property goes it can be a gray area. Signed or fenced property is one thing, but completely unmarked desert land is another. My screen name is hardly a way to hide. My fist name is also Carl. I think you can figure out my last name. I even have where I live in my signature.

The motivation of the article is to stop OHV use completely everywhere. Those behind that article will use any means at their disposal to accomplish their goals. Just to say it again, their goal is the elimination of OHV use completely. I guess that we are lucky that they have trouble separating the issues. That piece would been more acceptable if they had just stayed on with the private property issue, but they did not. They had to throw in a point about pollution, and Red Rock canyon. With those it's clear that the real goal is complete elimination.

Again, I don't think that anyone supports the action of those who damaged you fence and chased your horses. They were idiots we can all agree on that for sure. A quote from Lenin comes to mind. Supposedly he said "The Capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them." Don't be selling rope to those who want to eliminate your chosen recreational activity.

Ride on.. ? :banghead: ?

Carl