Rubicon Trail Status - Critical!!!

Your attendance is requested on April 23rd in Sacramento!

On Thursday, April 23rd the California Water Quality Control Board is having a public hearing in Rancho Cordova to finalize their decision on closing the Rubicon Trail.

We are asking all NORA supporters within driving distance of Sacramento to attend this important public hearing. Off-Highway Vehicle (OHV) enthusiasts need to show the Water Board the overwhelming public support to keep the Rubicon Trail open year-round. NORA’s goal is to have over (500) OHV enthusiasts present at this public hearing.

This is serious. On April 1st the United States Forest Service issued a 2-year temporary closure of the very popular Tellico OHV Area in North Carolina. Help Rubicon from turning into a Tellico type situation, by showing your support on April 23rd.

Assemblyman Ted Gaines and a representative from Congressman Tom McClintock’s office will be in attendance. Local Sacramento news media will also be covering this historic event.

Please call or email Erin Lara, Member Services Director at NORA to let her know if you are able to attend as we are trying to obtain a head count. She can be reached at (530) 333-1487, ext. 1 or info@nora-usa.com.

MEETING PLACE AND TIME:

LOCATION – 11020 Sun Center Drive # 200; Rancho Cordova, CA 95670

DATE & TIME – Thursday, April 23rd @ 12:30 PM

PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD…. EMAIL, CALL AND TELL EVERYONE YOU KNOW!!!!

Why close the Rubicon? It's not exactly in danger of losing it's boulders is it? I ran that trail back in the 90's in my early Bronco, not exactly a hard trail, and well kept when I was on it. Can't imagine the desire to close it? What's happening to the area that makes it a target? Spray paint?

They're claiming that it is harming the water quality.:p

Thanks NORA. I'll be there. Weird timing though with the CWQCB, you would have thought they'd be all over this when the Spyder Lake fiasco became apparent.

I heard that one of the concerns several years ago was too much human waste on the sides of the trail. I doubt that it the main reason, but the environmental wack-jobs are looking for anything.

I heard that one of the concerns several years ago was too much human waste on the sides of the trail. I doubt that it the main reason, but the environmental wack-jobs are looking for anything.

And hikers don't leave crap on their trails.

I heard that one of the concerns several years ago was too much human waste on the sides of the trail. I doubt that it the main reason, but the environmental wack-jobs are looking for anything.

Wasn't that just in the Spyder lake area? Poop was everywhere. :p Havent been in a few years but I heard they brought in portable toilets!

I work up there. I maintain the dams on Buck Island Reservoir and Rubicon Reservoir. I go by Spider Lake many times too. Buck and Spider are toilets by late July. Toilet paper as far as the eye can see. I'm as much an advocate as the next dirt bike rider, but I say this area is over used considering how almost everyone using it won't pick up their own waste. It's all granite and little summer rain. The poo sits there and contaminates the water. Those spots are hardly more than a septic tank by August.

One of the tasks we do is draw water samples to send in to independent labs for quality tests. Believe me, you don't want any part of your body in contact with this stuff by late summer. It's a shame people can't haul out their own waste. But that's hardly the extent of it. Most, if not all these 4x4 jeepers haul in their beer, drugs and loud music. They come from places like L.A. with their over built off road trucks and think their music choices need to be shared with every living thing with an ear drum within 10 miles. I have to get a special use permit to take a helicopter in to do the tests and maintain my equipment. I'm in and out in mere minutes, but these guys are hollering that the helicopter activity spoils their wilderness experience. Yea right!

Anyway, the place is way over used and the users are absolute pigs. For once I side with shutting it all down to vehicular traffic, then opening it to permit users only with verification of all waste removal.

Interesting thought! Permits! I like it! How do they verify the waste removal? Have a ranger at the end and count crap bags? Not being an a$$, but I have done the trail a handfull of times and have had a few that I didn't even crap during my visit. I did pee though... Does that count? :p

I work up there. I maintain the dams on Buck Island Reservoir and Rubicon Reservoir. I go by Spider Lake many times too. Buck and Spider are toilets by late July. Toilet paper as far as the eye can see. I'm as much an advocate as the next dirt bike rider, but I say this area is over used considering how almost everyone using it won't pick up their own waste. It's all granite and little summer rain. The poo sits there and contaminates the water. Those spots are hardly more than a septic tank by August.

One of the tasks we do is draw water samples to send in to independent labs for quality tests. Believe me, you don't want any part of your body in contact with this stuff by late summer. It's a shame people can't haul out their own waste. But that's hardly the extent of it. Most, if not all these 4x4 jeepers haul in their beer, drugs and loud music. They come from places like L.A. with their over built off road trucks and think their music choices need to be shared with every living thing with an ear drum within 10 miles. I have to get a special use permit to take a helicopter in to do the tests and maintain my equipment. I'm in and out in mere minutes, but these guys are hollering that the helicopter activity spoils their wilderness experience. Yea right!

Anyway, the place is way over used and the users are absolute pigs. For once I side with shutting it all down to vehicular traffic, then opening it to permit users only with verification of all waste removal.

:p:lol:

Dont go blaming the other OHV users now. I know a huge part of the 4x4 users blame the dirtbikes and quads. A large part of 4x4 community are doing all they can to keep it open, a lot more than anyone else I have seen. If you ever hang out on pirate4x4 you would know.

its so regulated there now.

I don't advocate shutting off access to any public trail.

It is so easy to just say close it instead of dealing with the crap problem.

have you ever rode on a cow trail? same effect with no tp.crap all over the place.It's just another anti-access tool.

In all the years, over 20, that I've been working that area, I've never seen another dirt bike other than me. So, no. It's not dirt bikers. It is 4wheelers. It's people, if you can call these pigs people, that camp out for several days that cause the mess. Not only poop. They wash their dishes, clothes, bodies, etc. in the water. They change their oil, weld, drip antifreeze and any other number of things. It's not bad if its just a few, but it's literally a traffic jam of dozens upon dozens of users every weekend up there during the summer months. They get into a mob mentality that they normally wouldn't behave at. I have seen it over and over. When they aren't trashing the area, they are fighting with each other. They get all tanked up, someone does or says something and a fight breaks out. They shoot firearms at all times of the day or night. For kicks I've seen them throw a can of food in a fire pit and wait for it to explode. The concussion rattles the whole area in shock wave.

Are there responsible users? Most likely. But even if every user was a responsible one, the area still can't sustain the shear numbers of humans impacting the resource. It is an impossiblilty to get lost up there; just give a shout and someone is within ear shot.

BTW open range cattle in the area is now banned. If there isn't some sort of policing of this area and soon, it will be shut down. People need to clean up their act now!

In all the years, over 20, that I've been working that area, I've never seen another dirt bike other than me. So, no. It's not dirt bikers. It is 4wheelers. It's people, if you can call these pigs people, that camp out for several days that cause the mess. Not only poop. They wash their dishes, clothes, bodies, etc. in the water. They change their oil, weld, drip antifreeze and any other number of things.

Unfortunately, I'd bet it gets closed to everyone if it gets closed. I used to run it on a dirtbike a few times a year when I lived in Santa Rosa and then truckee, usually as part of a bigger ride since it only takes a couple hours round trip on a bike (no need for pooping). It takes a few hours longer on a pedal bicycle, but I still never had to poop (and we still passed all the jeeps pretty easily).

I'm curious why the behavior appears to be so different than what we see in moab, which also has heavily used 4wheeler trails. Perhaps it's just due to the camping.

Hopefully instead of closure, some kind of rational permit process for camping can be instituted. All the more better if daytrippers like cyclists and motorcyclists were not affected.

Thanks for sharing your personal knowledge of the area skipro3. :p It may not be what everyone wants to hear, but sometimes we (offroaders in general) are our own worst enemies.

Our paths must have crossed skipro3 in the past. I work for the agency that maintains the "road" from a hazmat perspective.

...and yes, you're totally right in your assesment of the area.

In all the years, over 20, that I've been working that area, I've never seen another dirt bike other than me. So, no. It's not dirt bikers. It is 4wheelers. It's people, if you can call these pigs people, that camp out for several days that cause the mess. Not only poop. They wash their dishes, clothes, bodies, etc. in the water. They change their oil, weld, drip antifreeze and any other number of things. It's not bad if its just a few, but it's literally a traffic jam of dozens upon dozens of users every weekend up there during the summer months. They get into a mob mentality that they normally wouldn't behave at. I have seen it over and over. When they aren't trashing the area, they are fighting with each other. They get all tanked up, someone does or says something and a fight breaks out. They shoot firearms at all times of the day or night. For kicks I've seen them throw a can of food in a fire pit and wait for it to explode. The concussion rattles the whole area in shock wave.

Are there responsible users? Most likely. But even if every user was a responsible one, the area still can't sustain the shear numbers of humans impacting the resource. It is an impossiblilty to get lost up there; just give a shout and someone is within ear shot.

BTW open range cattle in the area is now banned. If there isn't some sort of policing of this area and soon, it will be shut down. People need to clean up their act now!

Thank you for sharing your personal experiences. It really sucks how irresponsible some people are. I just moved up to N. California, and am slowly getting into wheeling. Everyone I've been on the local (much easier) trails with have been extremely responsible and mature. However we have seen our fair share of yahoos. And when Sierra Club and some of the other clubs run Rubicon with 300+ vehicles I bet there are a heap of yahoos out there. It is amazing how many people have such a hard time understanding "pack it out".

Its really a shame how beautiful places like this get trashed by us humans...its kind of funny humans as a whole are like a virus, we (some of us) just take and destroy.

Closing the Rubicon will solve the local issues, but I guarantee the problem will just move else where. I have a feeling a lot more of the local trails will be closed in the future as well.

I may be there, but Thursdays are really bad days for me.

Your attendance is requested on April 23rd in Sacramento!

On Thursday, April 23rd the California Water Quality Control Board is having a public hearing in Rancho Cordova to finalize their decision on closing the Rubicon Trail.

We are asking all NORA supporters within driving distance of Sacramento to attend this important public hearing. Off-Highway Vehicle (OHV) enthusiasts need to show the Water Board the overwhelming public support to keep the Rubicon Trail open year-round. NORA’s goal is to have over (500) OHV enthusiasts present at this public hearing.

This is serious. On April 1st the United States Forest Service issued a 2-year temporary closure of the very popular Tellico OHV Area in North Carolina. Help Rubicon from turning into a Tellico type situation, by showing your support on April 23rd.

Assemblyman Ted Gaines and a representative from Congressman Tom McClintock’s office will be in attendance. Local Sacramento news media will also be covering this historic event.

Please call or email Erin Lara, Member Services Director at NORA to let her know if you are able to attend as we are trying to obtain a head count. She can be reached at (530) 333-1487, ext. 1 or info@nora-usa.com.

MEETING PLACE AND TIME:

LOCATION – 11020 Sun Center Drive # 200; Rancho Cordova, CA 95670

DATE & TIME – Thursday, April 23rd @ 12:30 PM

PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD…. EMAIL, CALL AND TELL EVERYONE YOU KNOW!!!!

Well since I happen to work in at the Regional Water Quality Control Board in Rancho Cordova, I can assure you that the board room will not hold that capacity. Unfortunatly my class starts at 12 and it is mandatory that I attend.

I would be very interested to see if some of our staff attend this meeting.

I know we have one guy with a lifted Tacoma that wheels, not sure if its up in Rubicon though.

I'm curious why the behavior appears to be so different than what we see in moab, which also has heavily used 4wheeler trails. Perhaps it's just due to the camping.

Hopefully instead of closure, some kind of rational permit process for camping can be instituted. All the more better if daytrippers like cyclists and motorcyclists were not affected.

Thanks for sharing your personal knowledge of the area skipro3. :p It may not be what everyone wants to hear, but sometimes we (offroaders in general) are our own worst enemies.

the reason, I think, for a behavoral difference between the Rubicon and Moab is that the Rubicon is utilized by locals. Yes folks, born and (in)bred Californians. Moab is utilized by out-of-towners, mainly because there is not local large population for the area. People, quite literally, crap in their own back yards.

As far as rational, I don't know. Used to be the El Dorado was Rich Platt's forest and he begrugged anyone else to trespass. For those who don't know Rich he was the main man for the forest service on the El Dorado. I work right across highway 50 from his office. We put in that helipad behind his office and the thanks we got was a reduction in wilderness air travel permits. Go figure... The new honcho is Charis Parker. She, yes, a woman, seems to be much more open to discussion with me on various topics dealing with the forest. Time will tell. I talk to Charis on a semi regular basis. I'll see if she'll tip her hand as to the potential disposition of the Rubicon Trail.

BTW, we, you and I, may be riding sometime together soon! I'm one of Ed's victims on his Idaho trip. Ha! no1clyde is a great guy!

Our paths must have crossed skipro3 in the past. I work for the agency that maintains the "road" from a hazmat perspective.

...and yes, you're totally right in your assesment of the area.

I think we have ridden together. Either with Big Bob or Oldedude maybe?

I very seldom drive the trail, I either fly in with a chopper or I walk in. I boat across the lake then hike in the Rubicon Reservoir several times a season. Used to be I'd boat across with a dirtbike and then unload it and ride, but a couple years ago, one of my co-workers broke an ankle doing that and now they won't let us ride dirtbikes. Well, I still do, I just don't tell 'em. I let them think I walk in. Ha! Also do a lot of "stuff" for work over in the Kirkwood ski area. Anyone who knows sierra, knows this area. :p

I work up there. I maintain the dams on Buck Island Reservoir and Rubicon Reservoir. I go by Spider Lake many times too. Buck and Spider are toilets by late July. Toilet paper as far as the eye can see. I'm as much an advocate as the next dirt bike rider, but I say this area is over used considering how almost everyone using it won't pick up their own waste. It's all granite and little summer rain. The poo sits there and contaminates the water. Those spots are hardly more than a septic tank by August.

One of the tasks we do is draw water samples to send in to independent labs for quality tests. Believe me, you don't want any part of your body in contact with this stuff by late summer.

I was up a few times last year and thought Spider and Buck lake areas were extremly clean. More so than a few year ago I'll admit that......

SkiPro - when was the lastest samplings done that you are referring too that show Spider and Buck contimated?

In all the years, over 20, that I've been working that area, I've never seen another dirt bike other than me. So, no. It's not dirt bikers. It is 4wheelers. It's people, if you can call these pigs people, that camp out for several days that cause the mess. Not only poop. They wash their dishes, clothes, bodies, etc. in the water. They change their oil, weld, drip antifreeze and any other number of things. It's not bad if its just a few, but it's literally a traffic jam of dozens upon dozens of users every weekend up there during the summer months. They get into a mob mentality that they normally wouldn't behave at. I have seen it over and over. When they aren't trashing the area, they are fighting with each other. They get all tanked up, someone does or says something and a fight breaks out. They shoot firearms at all times of the day or night. For kicks I've seen them throw a can of food in a fire pit and wait for it to explode. The concussion rattles the whole area in shock wave.

Are there responsible users? Most likely. But even if every user was a responsible one, the area still can't sustain the shear numbers of humans impacting the resource. It is an impossiblilty to get lost up there; just give a shout and someone is within ear shot.

BTW open range cattle in the area is now banned. If there isn't some sort of policing of this area and soon, it will be shut down. People need to clean up their act now!

How come in your signature it doesnt say "member of the sierra club"?

I have been going to rubicon (4wheeling) every year for 25 years and majority of the wheeling community packs out what they pack it. yes there are some people that just ruin it for everyone else but that goes the same for every sport. when ever I am wheeling, not just rubicon but anywhere, when I see trash on the ground I stop to pick it up.

The rubicon trail is actually a county rode and I hope because of that it stays open although everything is restricted not to no being able to drive off the trail more than 25' I believe, maybe 50'. which sucks because spider lake was my favorite place to camp at.

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