LED Turn Signal Help

[JP4]

I'm installing some LED turn signals - DRC602 model.

According to the instructions I may need either a "LED Resistor Wire", or "LED IC Relay"?

Say what?

Here's the deal. I'm doing both sets of signals, so I thought I'd do it one side at a time to see how things worked out. Did the right side (front and back) and loosely connected to see what happened.

Both right side LEDs light up, but flashed really fast. When I turned on the left side signals (still the stock units), they flashed at the right pace, but the right side LEDs light up too (weaker though), and the signal indicator (little indicator bar on the triple clamp) did not light up.

I know I need some resistors or relays to chill out the stock voltage/amperage, but I`m not quite sure how to achieve this?

Do I install a resistor on each hot lead (positve) connector? If so, anybody know what resistor? I assume it`s measured in OHMS?

If I go with the Relays, where would I find something like that, and what specifically would I ask for? And where the hell would they go? In line before the flasher?

This is getting complicated. I hate electrical stuff.

Sorry to sound like a moron, but my knowledge of mc electrical is weak - no pun intended!

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,

Jason

Oh, by the way, the decals on the IMS tank are still bubble free. So far, so good!

Salut..................

[KnotHead]

The resistors go across the leads for the lights. They get really hot though and need to be somewhere that air can get to them and they won't contact anything that will melt.

In the US, Autozone carries LED flasher units for $10, I can't remember who makes them though.

I found a link to some:

http://www.ledlight.com/electronic-led-flasher-ep29.aspx

Looks like either an EP32 or EP33 might fit. $19.99 is too much to pay for one though.

[Spannermad]

The other issue you will have with a electronic flasher unit is that when you put the left or right flasher on the whole lot will go. This is because the dash light is linked between both and uses the unused side as a earth, as the small bulb doesn`t draw much current it wont light up the unused stock flashers. when you put LED flashers on this small bulb will allow enough current through to light up all the flashers.

There are 2 fixes for this.

1 wire in 2 dash lights . 1 for left and 1 for right.

2 rewire the existing dash light so that it is in series (inline) with the wire to the flasher switch, it can`t earth untill the switch is moved left or right.

[msiddalingaiah]

You might try Spannermad's solution #2. If you're lucky you could kill two birds with one stone. If the dash light is wired in series with with each LED blinker, it might have enough resistance to do the job. If the blinkers are still too fast, try wiring the front and back LEDs in series rather than parallel. It's a hack just to avoid adding resistors in series, but it might work.

Another option is to call the supplier for your blinkers and ask what size resistor is needed. Post it here, I would be curious to know. Once you have that, there are plenty of electronic suppliers that sell resistors at low cost.

PS: you really shouldn't connect LEDs without some kind of current limiting device, e.g. resistor. They can easily draw too much current and burn up.

[JP4]

I did a little more searching and found some more info. I don't like the resistor option, seems messy, prone to failure and defeats the point of the low voltage draw LEDs. I want them to be as bright as possible and work right. I'm gonna go the electronic flasher route and make it work.

I bought an electronic flasher (Tridon/Trico EP-37, it is the recommended 2 pin electronic flasher for LEDs on the DR). It's not a plug and play item, but I'm confident that I can put some leads on the stock wires and secure the flasher to the battery box without too much trouble.

Regarding the turn signal indicator. Wiring in 2 bulbs doesn't look possible, and I've no idea how to wire it in series?

A post I read said that I could just cut and cap one of the signal indicator light wires to eliminate the problem of all the signals lighting up when activated. An easy fix, but I'd like the indicator light to work. Alternatively, the post indicated that I could install 2 diodes on the signal indicator light to correct the problem. I bought some diodes (1N5406, it was the only 3 amp diodes they had), but I don't know how to install them? I assume they have to be oriented in a certain direction. They have a piece of red tape on one end, and a piece of white tape on the other. I'm thinking that one end is supposed to go towards where the power is coming from, but which end? Red or white? And, is it the same for both the + and - wires?

I guess I'll hook up all the signals with the new flasher, see if it works, and if they all light up at the same time, then mess around with the diodes to see if I can get it to work right. But man, I hate cutting those stock wires, cause there isn't much wire to work with, and I don't want to make a big mess of things. All this so that I could have smaller, better looking signal lights. Sometimes I gotta wonder what motivates to try stuff like this..........

Anybody know anything about diodes or rectifers?

Thanks,

Jason

[udaloy]

I did a little more searching and found some more info. I don't like the resistor option, seems messy, prone to failure and defeats the point of the low voltage draw LEDs. I want them to be as bright as possible and work right. I'm gonna go the electronic flasher route and make it work.

I bought an electronic flasher (Tridon/Trico EP-37, it is the recommended 2 pin electronic flasher for LEDs on the DR). It's not a plug and play item, but I'm confident that I can put some leads on the stock wires and secure the flasher to the battery box without too much trouble.

Regarding the turn signal indicator. Wiring in 2 bulbs doesn't look possible, and I've no idea how to wire it in series?

A post I read said that I could just cut and cap one of the signal indicator light wires to eliminate the problem of all the signals lighting up when activated. An easy fix, but I'd like the indicator light to work. Alternatively, the post indicated that I could install 2 diodes on the signal indicator light to correct the problem. I bought some diodes (1N5406, it was the only 3 amp diodes they had), but I don't know how to install them? I assume they have to be oriented in a certain direction. They have a piece of red tape on one end, and a piece of white tape on the other. I'm thinking that one end is supposed to go towards where the power is coming from, but which end? Red or white? And, is it the same for both the + and - wires?

I guess I'll hook up all the signals with the new flasher, see if it works, and if they all light up at the same time, then mess around with the diodes to see if I can get it to work right. But man, I hate cutting those stock wires, cause there isn't much wire to work with, and I don't want to make a big mess of things. All this so that I could have smaller, better looking signal lights. Sometimes I gotta wonder what motivates to try stuff like this..........

Anybody know anything about diodes or rectifers?

Thanks,

Jason

I remembered reading a posting on this digital flasher replacement online. It is a direct replacement but you would need to improvise the connection as the DR flasher connector is different.

I have also replaced just my front signal lights to LED, so they are blinking slightly faster than normal. So I will also be changing to an electronic flasher soon. Will post it when it's done, unless you beat me to it.

?

[Older and Slower]

Ok, what i did; I wanted led turn signals all around. Bought a cheap electronic three terminal flasher relay rated for low current draw for leds. Bought a plastic three prong headlamp pigtail from Kragen. Plugged the relay into the three prong pigtail. Put the rubber holder from the Suzuki relay around the new flasher so that i could mount it the same way as the OEM. Read the wiring diagram from the flasher package. The indicated wire was spliced in TO the turn signal switch. The indicated wire was spliced in FROM the power lead. The extra wire on the new flasher is a ground and so i grounded it. At the indicator panel: I have switched over to LED indicators, so this may be slightly different from what you need for a bulb. Anyway, i wired two 1N4001 diodes to each wire that went to the original turn signal indicator bulb. The other end of the diodes i connected together and wired that connection to one side of my LED (your bulb). The other side of my LED (your bulb) went to ground. Now two things; with an LED turn signal indicator, i wired in series a 560 ohm resistor to drop the current through the LED to keep from burning it out. You won't need a resistor for a bulb (it will make it dim). LEDs are diodes and they need to go into the circuit the corret way ... in other words they are polarity sensitive. The actual diodes are polarity sensitive, just try one way or the other until it conducts and the bulb/led lights ... i won't go into detail about anodes and cathodes, etc. Caveat, if you use a bulb instead of an LED, you may want to go with 1N4004 diodes because of the bit of extra current that the bulb will pull.

I know a diagram or schematic would be a lot simpler, but i just don't have the talent to produce one on a computer.

Cheers

[JP4]

Ok, what i did; I wanted led turn signals all around. Bought a cheap electronic three terminal flasher relay rated for low current draw for leds. Bought a plastic three prong headlamp pigtail from Kragen. Plugged the relay into the three prong pigtail. Put the rubber holder from the Suzuki relay around the new flasher so that i could mount it the same way as the OEM. Read the wiring diagram from the flasher package. The indicated wire was spliced in TO the turn signal switch. The indicated wire was spliced in FROM the power lead. The extra wire on the new flasher is a ground and so i grounded it. At the indicator panel: I have switched over to LED indicators, so this may be slightly different from what you need for a bulb. Anyway, i wired two 1N4001 diodes to each wire that went to the original turn signal indicator bulb. The other end of the diodes i connected together and wired that connection to one side of my LED (your bulb). The other side of my LED (your bulb) went to ground. Now two things; with an LED turn signal indicator, i wired in series a 560 ohm resistor to drop the current through the LED to keep from burning it out. You won't need a resistor for a bulb (it will make it dim). LEDs are diodes and they need to go into the circuit the corret way ... in other words they are polarity sensitive. The actual diodes are polarity sensitive, just try one way or the other until it conducts and the bulb/led lights ... i won't go into detail about anodes and cathodes, etc. Caveat, if you use a bulb instead of an LED, you may want to go with 1N4004 diodes because of the bit of extra current that the bulb will pull.

I know a diagram or schematic would be a lot simpler, but i just don't have the talent to produce one on a computer.

Cheers

Thanks for the help, but you totally lost me with the post. I'm a total tard when it comes to moto electrics. I read it 4 times, but I'm still not sure what you were saying?

I have a 2 pin electronic LED flasher that I can rig to make the signals work.

My issue is with the turn signal indicator light on the dashboard. Not really a dashboard, just a little indicator bar that Suzuki calls a Pilot Display, or something like that.

Can I use the diodes that I have to make the turn signal indicator light work? If so, how do I orient them? Which side goes toward the power source? And is it different for the negative and positive wires? I'm leaving the turn indicator light stock, I just want to make it work with LED signals.

Is there another fix for this problem? An LED light to replace the stock turn signal indicator light? Is this what you were trying to tell me?

Sorry for being obtuse, but I really suck when it comes to electrical stuff.

Thanks,

Jason

[JP4]

Still no success.

I loosely wired everything up. When I tried the signals they all light up at the same time. This was expected. The problem is that they were very weak and did not flash, just light up and stayed on.

I clipped one of the signal indicator wires on the pilot display, and as expected, only one side of the signals would light up when the signal was tripped. This is good, if I can get the signals to work right I don't mind sorting out the signal indicator light with the diodes later on.

The problem is that the signal lights are weak and don't flash. It's like the flasher is not getting enough juice to work properly? I only wired it up loosely. It's a holiday here today so everything is closed, and I need some spade connectors to properly connect the new flasher.

All that I can figure is that the flasher needs a real good connection to work properly. When I was playing with the leads to the flasher I think I saw it light up bright once or twice. Kinda hard to tell cause I was looking at the leads and the flasher and trying to watch the signal light at the same time.

I dunno? I'll get some proper leads for the flasher and see if that works.

After re-reading the post from Older and Slower I get what he did with a 3 prong flasher and headlight pigtail (just replaced my headlight socket with a generic aftermarket piece). If good connectors on the EP37 flasher don't work, I'll try what he did.

Getting pissed off wasting money on useles electrical doo-dads. It's a good thing my back is hooped and I can't ride, cause if I was healthy and ok to ride I'd be going nuts!

JP

[Older and Slower]

JP4, i at first tried the two prong flasher relay because i was told that that was the ticket for getting the LED signals going. WRONG. It didn't work at all for me, that's why i went with the three terminal flasher. I couldn't even get them to light with the two prong one.

If you need, i can wire a LED with two diodes and a resistor and mail it to you to get the led indicator going for you. Just tell me what color and size LED you want.

The three terminal flasher is easy to use, two of the terminals go to wires you already have there and the third one simply goes to ground.

Let me know about the LED indicator.

Cheers

[msiddalingaiah]

Not sure if this helps, but ProCycle sells LED turn signal kits and parts. They offer a complete wiring diagram if you order one of their dual sport lighting kits. You might call them and ask for the wiring diagram, I'm sure it works as advertised.

ProCycle is also a member on TT and posts regularly, so you might consider PMing him for help.

[JP4]

JP4, i at first tried the two prong flasher relay because i was told that that was the ticket for getting the LED signals going. WRONG. It didn't work at all for me, that's why i went with the three terminal flasher. I couldn't even get them to light with the two prong one.

If you need, i can wire a LED with two diodes and a resistor and mail it to you to get the led indicator going for you. Just tell me what color and size LED you want.

The three terminal flasher is easy to use, two of the terminals go to wires you already have there and the third one simply goes to ground.

Let me know about the LED indicator.

Cheers

Well, still no success. I put some good leads on the stock relay wires and tried the 2 prong flasher. No surprise, same deal. Weak lights and no flash.

Got a 3 prong electronic flasher and the 3 wire pigtail socket. That didn't work either. Not sure which lead on the flasher is the ground. One is marked +, one -, and the third one is 'L'. I figured the - was the ground. Tried all the variables and the best I got was a reasonably bright light, but no flashing, with the stock wires connected to the + and negative terminals on the flasher. Grounding the 'L' lead to a bolt on the battery hold down made no difference. Should I have grounded it somewhere else, like one of the negative wire connections for one of the rear signals? Didn't think to try that until just now. Maybe I'll go back to the garage and give that a try?

Getting a little frustrated and thinking that I should go back to the stock relay and try the resistor pack option. Not entirely sure how to do that though.

I installed some nice jumbo foot pegs that I bought off the net for $18. That made me feel a little better. They look sweet.

Ok, back to the garage for one last try. Hope I don't fry anything.

JP.

[anders r]

Getting a little frustrated and thinking that I should go back to the stock relay and try the resistor pack option. Not entirely sure how to do that though.

Connect the resistor in parallel with the blinker aprox 8.2 ohms 15-20w and put it some place well ventilated. It will get hot, perhaps enough to melt plastics.

[Older and Slower]

JP4, the resistors may get it going for you, however they do nothing to drop the current draw ... that's really one of the valid reasons for going with LED's in the first place. They will suck some current AND as anders r said, get hot. I will hand draw a schematic of what i did, scan it and post it. It will take me a bit of time, but i'll try to get it done today. Also, the flasher i bought i got from a motorcycle dealer, not the autoparts store and it had the connection labeling on the back of the card it was attached to. If you want, i'll buy another one and mail it to you. Note: You do need to have the flasher wired correctly for it to waork, and it has to be the electronic variety.

[Older and Slower]

[JP4]

JP4, the resistors may get it going for you, however they do nothing to drop the current draw ... that's really one of the valid reasons for going with LED's in the first place. They will suck some current AND as anders r said, get hot. I will hand draw a schematic of what i did, scan it and post it. It will take me a bit of time, but i'll try to get it done today. Also, the flasher i bought i got from a motorcycle dealer, not the autoparts store and it had the connection labeling on the back of the card it was attached to. If you want, i'll buy another one and mail it to you. Note: You do need to have the flasher wired correctly for it to waork, and it has to be the electronic variety.

Thanks for your help. Don't go to the bother of posting up a schematic. But thanks for the offer.

I ordered a universal electronic motorcycle flasher. It's a 2 pin model and is waterproof - I was a little concerned about the durability of the automotive one. http://www.v-leds.com/BlinkerWarning-Fix/Electronic-Flashers/UNIVERSAL-MOTORCYCLE-p5189745.html

I should have it next week. Hopefully it does the trick.

Then I'll work on the diodes for turn indicator light. If I can't get that sorted out I may get you to make me up an LED light. I'll let you know how things go.

Thanks again for all your help and patience. Hope you have a nice 4th of July long weekend.

Jason

[Older and Slower]

Have a nice weekend yourself, but too late, the schematic is just above your last post. I'm not so sure that your two pin flasher will work, i hope it does, but the first one i had didn't. No problem at all to make up an LED indicator for you, just let me know.

Cheers.

[JP4]

Have a nice weekend yourself, but too late, the schematic is just above your last post. I'm not so sure that your two pin flasher will work, i hope it does, but the first one i had didn't. No problem at all to make up an LED indicator for you, just let me know.

Cheers.

Thanks for the schematic. Feel bad for putting you to the trouble cause of my ignorance. Much appreciated.

Wow, I had a look at it and it pretty much makes sense to me. I think my knowledge of electrical stuff is getting better! I studied electricity in high school and some of the knowledge is starting to come come back.

I hope the universal mc electronic flasher that I ordered works, but I'm not too confident. The DR seems particularly quirky with the LEDs?

While I'm waiting for the part I decided to try another automotive flasher. Found some info on a sport bike post that I'd try. I got a 2 prong Tridon HD12

flasher that was guaranteed to work for some crotch rockets with LEDs - I bought it from a big box retailer that allows you to return electrical stuff amazing enough - it's called Canadian Tire (commonly referred to as Crappy Tire), and they sell everything from toasters to camping gear to auto parts - how uniquely Canadian.

Anyway, that flasher did the same as the rest - lights up but no flash. It said that it required a 20amp fuse so I jerry rigged one up in series, and then tried it in parallel, but the result was the same, lights but no flash.

Stopped by my local bike shop and all they had was an adjustable 3 lead electronic flasher for $70. I can live with the cost but if it doesn't work they won't take it back. I'm stuck with the $50 EP37 flasher that I bought from the specialty electrical shop, as they won't take it back. I can understand why, but this is all starting to add up. I don't mind spending money, but when it's just like throwing it out the window I kick myself.

I'm running out of options and a little lost?

If the offer is still available I might take you up on your offer to wire me up a rig for the flasher and the dashboard indicator light. I'll pay you for it of course. I'll sleep on it, and PM you if I decide to do it.

Thanks again, you've given me more help than I would have expected. Nice to know there's still some decent people out there.

Jason

[KnotHead]

Wire the EP-37 back in, but this time pull the indicator light out of it's socket. Since you got light but no flash I suspect that might be the problem. If it works then you know to focus on the indicator, if not then you may have the flasher wired in wrong....

O+S has the right idea with adding a couple of diodes into the indicator circuit, they will keep the current from crossing over to the other side and lighting all four lights. I have been planning on relocating and replacing all of my indicator lights with LEDs... his idea is the same that I had come up with.

I wouldn't spend any more money on flasher units, you should be able to get the one you have working with a little more fiddling. If you were closer I'd give you the resistors and diodes you need, but shipping from here to there would cost more than they are worth.

[JP4]

Wire the EP-37 back in, but this time pull the indicator light out of it's socket. Since you got light but no flash I suspect that might be the problem. If it works then you know to focus on the indicator, if not then you may have the flasher wired in wrong....

O+S has the right idea with adding a couple of diodes into the indicator circuit, they will keep the current from crossing over to the other side and lighting all four lights. I have been planning on relocating and replacing all of my indicator lights with LEDs... his idea is the same that I had come up with.

I wouldn't spend any more money on flasher units, you should be able to get the one you have working with a little more fiddling. If you were closer I'd give you the resistors and diodes you need, but shipping from here to there would cost more than they are worth.

I cut one of the wires to the dashboard indicator light to eliminate any draw that it was causing. The result was the same, light but no flash. I even wired the dash light back up with the EP37 to see what happened. All the signals light up because of the extra draw, but still no flash. I thought by completely eliminating the dashboard indicator (cutting the wire), that I was eliminating one variable and just focusing on the flasher. Maybe I was wrong?

I've tried just about everything. O&S is the only guy to comment who has actually made LEDs work on the DR. He tried the EP 37 too with no success.

It's almost like the signals I'm using (DRC 602) have such low voltage draw that it won't trip most electronic flashers.......I dunno, just guessing. Can't imagine why these LEDs would have any less draw than others.

Thanks for the post though. If you have any other ideas please share.

Thanks,

Jason