Question for the older riders..40+

[MIyzrider]

I purchased my first dirtbike about 5 years ago, before that I had never riden one. The first bike was a 96 YZ250, I rode that for the first 3 years and now have a 98 YZ400F.

I ride in northern MI , mostly snowmobile, atv and the gncc trails. It is VERY sandy here. For the most part I'm an ok rider, I'm comfortable on the bike and in the atv and snowmobile trails I can hammer down. It's the single track gncc trails I seem to be having a problem with. I just am not good thru them... very slow and wobbly which makes it worse in the sand. The issue is I can't get the bike to just snap thru the tight corners. I figured the first few years would be tough but I just don't seem to be getting better. I'm almost to the point of switching to a quad, just call it 5 good years and move on. I'm an avid snowmobile and in comparison my sledding skills are about 100% better than my dirtbike skills. I'm just wondering how others my age are doing.

[NVDESERTPETE]

Go in hot, jamb rear brake on and pull clutch in at the same time, square the corner off. While all that's happening go down a gear or 2. As the corner is squared off and as your ready to exit dump the clutch and at the same time apply rather large amounts of throttle out of the corner. That's how I do it in the really deep soft tight sand turns. During the middle of the transition you might feel your not going through the turn as fast. But going in hot and coming out hot you will be faster than the guys trying to sweep the turns. Start out slow and as you get your style perfected try it a little faster each time. A few weeks of practice and I think your speed will pick up significantly. Another thing I do when possible is to shove the bars over and stradle the corner edge of the seat while making the turn and get my leg out for balance. I sit a little closer to the tank but not so close as to make the front end plow into the sand. Sitting a little closer to the tank helps to whip the rear end around when jambing on the brake. Suspension tuning, tire selection and tire pressure also contribute greatly to making quick turns in the sand or deep powder. You might get some different techniques from different riders but this method works pretty good for me.

http://www.racerxonline.com/article/carmichael-redbud-two-stroke-video.aspx

There's a couple of really tight turns in this video where RC comes in really hot, locks it up, squares it and blasts out. As he comes out of one of them he's almost doing it one handed waving at the crowd. It's not sand but the same basic technique.

[the white stallion]

I might suggest a smaller bike like a 250F or a newer 450 depending on your weight.Not to Familar or actually not at all with the YZ 400F but I'm willing to bet it is not the best handling bike.Lots of power but heavy and doesn't handle well for your type of riding.If you want to keep the bike maybe you should have the suspension done or atleast check the spring weights and sag for your weight.Poor choice of tires could allso be your problem combined with Suspension?:thumbsup:Allso like mentioned above it could be your style.Try sitting up on the tank more?

[gruberyz]

First thing you need to do on a YZ400 is set it up on a stand with both wheels off the ground. Now wiggle front and back tires see if play in wheel bearings, check steering stem for play. Lift on back wheel see if slack in suspension linkage-shock bearings, rattle the swingarm back and forth check for play. that bike will never corner right with slack in bearings changing the geometry in wierd ways. After all that is tight make sure your race sag is correct, try dropping your front end down on the fork tubes a little at a time see how that helps. I notice as I have gotton older my cornering in the more bermy type single track corners has gotton slower. Mainly because I refuse to put my feet off the pegs unless it's an absolute necesity. Too many knee surgerys to risk it. My speed through really tight handelbar rubbing corners is as good as ever. The high speed lean and bang stuff just not hard core enough anymore unless someone roosts on me or something.

[MIyzrider]

Thanks for the replies.

I have checked all the suspension on my bike , everything is tight. The suspension has been set up for a #230 rider, I'm about #240. So it has to be close. I've got a Pirrelli Scorpion pro front tire and a Dunlop D739 A/T desert terrian on the rear.

Maybe lowering the front some might help. I guess just more practice. I know the bike is a tank, and with the desert tank on it it's even more weight so I'm sure these things are compounding the issue as well.

[cxcmoto]

How much front break are you using ??

I find that good amount of front brake adds a lot of stability and keeps the front tire planted for the turn. It took me a while, but I finally managed to start using front brake while applying some throttle. Since they are in the same hand, it takes practice. For the tighter woods stuff, front brake+throttle ==fast.

[Mojopriest]

How much front break are you using ??

I find that good amount of front brake adds a lot of stability and keeps the front tire planted for the turn. It took me a while, but I finally managed to start using front brake while applying some throttle. Since they are in the same hand, it takes practice. For the tighter woods stuff, front brake+throttle ==fast.

x2:thumbsup: Keep your revs up when you get wobbly and try to keep that rear wheel moving for gyroscopic stability.

[07RMZ450RC4ME]

I was working on this issue last weekend. I rode the same loop about 50 times to work on it. A few things a worked on; Rear brake steering, slide the back around and gun it, keeping my outside peg heavily weighted, leaning the bike into the corner and moving my rear to the outside the bike, staying way forward to give the front wheel more traction, it seems the faster you go the more stable you are, keeping my rear of the seat until necessary and finally getting comfortable drifting the bike through corners.

Good luck, working for me.

[Gopher]

I'm an old guy (over 50) and not a particulary good rider. (Slow C). We have miles of sand wash around here and in the beginning, I hated it. I have found that speed is the key for me. Going slow really makes it harder.

[Mojopriest]

I was working on this issue last weekend. I rode the same loop about 50 times to work on it. A few things a worked on; Rear brake steering, slide the back around and gun it, keeping my outside peg heavily weighted, leaning the bike into the corner and moving my rear to the outside the bike, staying way forward to give the front wheel more traction, it seems the faster you go the more stable you are, keeping my rear of the seat until necessary and finally getting comfortable drifting the bike through corners.

Good luck, working for me.

Right before the High-Side! D'OH!

Seriously, great explanation of good technique.

[crazymxrider_93]

speed is a big factor there. if u just keep your speed up it will help alot with plowing through rough spots, and u will be less wobbly.

[rjboschjr]

I'm almost to the point of switching to a quad, just call it 5 good years and move on. I'm an avid snowmobile and in comparison my sledding skills are about 100% better than my dirtbike skills. I'm just wondering how others my age are doing.

Noooooo, dont go back to the couch,keep the YZ, HAHA

[CamP]

The 1998 YZ400 was a tank and isn't helping your situation. Have you thought about a bike upgrade?

[faraim]

Hey mi yzrider,I am 40 + and just got back to off road after a 25 yr break.I still feel like a newb, and as such I hesitate to give advice, so I will just tell you what I learned. I dont have much experience with sand as I have been riding mostly at Fox Valley Off Road in Ill. but got up last weekend to ride the Evart loop and Cedar Creek as you may know its all sand,I hate sand but had to do it.

Some things I learned are

1 Speed keep it up

2 shift weight back stay on the gas

3 go in hot let the sand help to slow you down

4 stand up

5 be smooth (for me being to agressive just caused problems)

6 be ing fluid on the bike helped me mor in the sand than in the dirt

My bike is an 08 450 excr set up for woods with custom bar risers and forward offset, next time I go I will rotate the bars back and or move the offset arount to keep my body position the same but still keep my weight back ,hope it helps

[Danoflapper]

There are some trails in Baldwin that you should visit. They're wide open snowmobile trials with CC trails intertwined with them so you can pick and choose what you want to ride. If you get sick of the tight stuff you can hop off at the next intersection and get back to mashing your throttle on the straight stuff. My dad rides a tank of a KLX 650, he's slow but content with it. :/

Hope you chose to stay on two wheels.

I dont have much experience with sand as I have been riding mostly at Fox Valley Off Road in Ill. but got up last weekend to ride the Evart loop and Cedar Creek as you may know its all sand,I hate sand but had to do it.

Haha nothing but sand and whoops at Cedar Creek

[zig06]

OK, July 8th I turned 44....

When it comes to riding sand in Michigan, it's a whole different deal than most sandy places. Think of it as riding in the dunes ~ with "thick" sand, trees and very little momentum. Brake sliding "into" a turn is common, but sliding the rear "around" is just not possible in most of the turns because the sand is just too soft and deep.

The best way that I've come up with is to keep the power on through a turn. And to do that, you need to do all of your braking BEFORE you get into the turn. From there, pick your line and then roll the power on. This takes throttle control and in most cases you are only going to use a 1/4 to 1/2 throttle to get through.

The idea is that you should never cut or chop the throttle as you enter the turn, you want to keep the same speed or increase your speed as you go through the turn. Cedar Creek is my "home trail" and the north loop (ie "The Sand Section) forced me into coming up with some way to deal with deep sand. So try braking before the turn, then maintain or accelerate through with throttle control. It works for me!

And I'm riding there next Saturday, see you there?

[zig06]

There are some trails in Baldwin that you should visit. They're wide open snowmobile trials with CC trails intertwined with them so you can pick and choose what you want to ride. If you get sick of the tight stuff you can hop off at the next intersection and get back to mashing your throttle on the straight stuff. My dad rides a tank of a KLX 650, he's slow but content with it. :/

Hope you chose to stay on two wheels.

Haha nothing but sand and whoops at Cedar Creek

Please use caution when riding a snowmobile trail. Many of them are illegal for us ORV riders to use...

[Danoflapper]

Please use caution when riding a snowmobile trail. Many of them are illegal for us ORV riders to use...

That's why the trails in baldwin are so special, they're open to ORVS.

It's kind of scary on some parts of the trails - mainly blind corners where it's common to have a pack of crazy men on quads hauling arse. That, and they're wide enough for a truck to fit through them. We've encountered Jeeps, and a guy in a rednecked-out Samurai before.

My dad and I planned on plating our bikes so we could ride snowmobile trails and two-tracks closer to home, but I don't think that's going to happen this year.

EDIT: I'd say that Cedar Creek is our "home trail" too. We've been going there almost every weekend because it's closer, cheaper, and not filled with idiots. We're from Holland so it's only about a 90 mile round trip, which isn't so bad compared to Baldwin being a 175 Mile round trip. I wish there were trails south of Muskegon. We'll be up in Leelanau next weekend so we might go riding in Kalkaska. There are some decent trails there, still sandy.

[MIyzrider]

The 1998 YZ400 was a tank and isn't helping your situation. Have you thought about a bike upgrade?

No,

Too many other hobbies to deal with, this is fun but not my entire passion.

There are some trails in Baldwin that you should visit. They're wide open snowmobile trials with CC trails intertwined with them so you can pick and choose what you want to ride. If you get sick of the tight stuff you can hop off at the next intersection and get back to mashing your throttle on the straight stuff. My dad rides a tank of a KLX 650, he's slow but content with it. :/

Hope you chose to stay on two wheels.

Haha nothing but sand and whoops at Cedar Creek

Our cabin is just outside of Lewiston, so I ride the North Branch loop and the single tracks in that area.

I'm sure I'll stick with the bike... I think I was a little frustrated.

OK, July 8th I turned 44....

When it comes to riding sand in Michigan, it's a whole different deal than most sandy places. Think of it as riding in the dunes ~ with "thick" sand, trees and very little momentum. Brake sliding "into" a turn is common, but sliding the rear "around" is just not possible in most of the turns because the sand is just too soft and deep.

The best way that I've come up with is to keep the power on through a turn. And to do that, you need to do all of your braking BEFORE you get into the turn. From there, pick your line and then roll the power on. This takes throttle control and in most cases you are only going to use a 1/4 to 1/2 throttle to get through.

The idea is that you should never cut or chop the throttle as you enter the turn, you want to keep the same speed or increase your speed as you go through the turn. Cedar Creek is my "home trail" and the north loop (ie "The Sand Section) forced me into coming up with some way to deal with deep sand. So try braking before the turn, then maintain or accelerate through with throttle control. It works for me!

And I'm riding there next Saturday, see you there?

Thanks for the invite , but just spent last week up there, hopefully I'll head back up in another week. Just for the weekend though.

Please use caution when riding a snowmobile trail. Many of them are illegal for us ORV riders to use...

The loops by our cabin are designated ORV routes so as long as you have an ORV sticker you are good to go.. which makes it scary when you come into a blind corner head on with a Jeep and one time 4 guys with helmets strapped into an old GEO tracker mid drift thru the corner.

[941MXVET]

Something to consider, since your muscle memory is predomently snowmobles, is it possible that your sitting too much in the tight stuff?

Standing through tight trails works much better for me then sitting.

BTW I had a 98 WR 400, it can be a bit top heavy in tight trails, good bike though.

Another thing to consider, as others have stated, try and keep your momentum up.