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Your thoughts on trading 450 for a 200

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I think that power is more of a preference than a necessity, with respect to speed. I recently road some tight, open and everything in between singletrack near Steamboat, CO with a guy on an EXC200 and, wow, was he fast.

Let me put this into context. I'm 6'2', 180lbs (without gear) and ride a yz250 with an 11oz flywheel, custom suspension, etc. Plenty of power and it is certainly faster than I am. I ride trails very quick and even get compliments on my speed and cornering. I am always in the lead group, leading or closely following on trails (I'm a total puss on a track).

Anyhow, I struggled to keep up with the guy on the EXC200, who was very close in height and weight to me. It was the first time I struggled to keep up with anyone on a trail, ever. This guy rocked.

The point being is that, with certain exceptions, power is almost irrelevant on singletrack with lots of twists, turns and features. The guy on the EXC200 was fluid and consistent through everything. I could out accelerate him, but that didn't matter. His ability to handle the bike and maintain speed made him fast, not the power or acceleration.

I capitulated between the 300, the 200 and the 250. I bought the YZ because I got good deal on it. I absolutely love it without complaint. That said, I may look into a 200 for my next bike.

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I think that power is more of a preference than a necessity, with respect to speed. I recently road some tight, open and everything in between singletrack near Steamboat, CO with a guy on an EXC200 and, wow, was he fast.

Let me put this into context. I'm 6'2', 180lbs (without gear) and ride a yz250 with an 11oz flywheel, custom suspension, etc. Plenty of power and it is certainly faster than I am. I ride trails very quick and even get compliments on my speed and cornering. I am always in the lead group, leading or closely following on trails (I'm a total puss on a track).

Anyhow, I struggled to keep up with the guy on the EXC200, who was very close in height and weight to me. It was the first time I struggled to keep up with anyone on a trail, ever. This guy rocked.

The point being is that, with certain exceptions, power is almost irrelevant on singletrack with lots of twists, turns and features. The guy on the EXC200 was fluid and consistent through everything. I could out accelerate him, but that didn't matter. His ability to handle the bike and maintain speed made him fast, not the power or acceleration.

I capitulated between the 300, the 200 and the 250. I bought the YZ because I got good deal on it. I absolutely love it without complaint. That said, I may look into a 200 for my next bike.

That is a most excellent point. :worthy:

My statement about the power was strictly from my perspective...I don't care for the narrow "goat trails" with the only line being three-foot deep ruts. Not on my 450, not even on my CR250. Never have. Just not my thing...so I don't ride much of it and it isn't the first thing that comes to mind when I think of riding woods.

That being said, to expand on your statement (but at the other end of the spectrum), I have a friend who has had several XR650L's over the last fifteen years, and has always amazed me with how quickly he flows through the tight, twisty single track on that land barge.

So, I agree with you that speed through the tight stuff has nearly nothing to do with the power the bike makes, but how the rider flows on the bike and the riders who are smoothest and most fluid are always the one's that use the least amount of energy, making them faster longer.

I'll be the first to admit that I'm not even close to being one of those riders, but maybe someday I'll at least be able to provide some traction for you. :banana:

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Being comfortable on a bike makes you alittle faster. Mybe your set up just isn`t rigth yet ? I ride a 450 crf and had a time setting it up for woods, trying to get it balanced right. Was not comfortable with the front end at all. Had is revalved more than once , but now it great , on rock ,roots and sand. One more thing is your sag setting , 102 to 106 , see what work best for you. I`m 6` 190 , and like my sag around 105 , with the back end a little low so when you go in to trun , it will transfer weight to the front and trun better. but you will need more compesssion up front , 0ne , or two clicks.

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SOOOOO, if the KATOOOM is SO sweet, why is the current owner willing to trade? For the bike you DISLIKE???!!?

Just wondering how much was done to the R to "fit" it to you? Like I said just wonderin'.

I'm guessing that you bring up the MXC 200 because it's a straight across trade. If that IS the situation, I'd want a LOT more for MY CRF 450X.. Just sayin'. But I LOVE my bike, I'm a single track slut. If I'm not ON it my X will BEAT me... I would NOT want a R. But I really would NOT WANT a KTM just from all the breakage issues that my friends seem to have with them.

If you have choices then I would ride as many different bikes as possible. I think the GAS GAS 300 would be a kick ass bike. I've had to be the one caring and doctoring a few KTMs a 200 XC, a 300 XC, and a 450 EXC. Had lots of issues with each and everyone of them. Mainly big failures, broken frames, broken triple clamps, broken crank shafts, broken shock mounts, the list goes on... for a long ways. I'd really look at why your HONDA has issues. It's very un-HONDA-esque. Hope you figure out a bike setup you're happy with.

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SOOOOO, if the KATOOOM is SO sweet, why is the current owner willing to trade? For the bike you DISLIKE???!!?

Just wondering how much was done to the R to "fit" it to you? Like I said just wonderin'.

I'm guessing that you bring up the MXC 200 because it's a straight across trade. If that IS the situation, I'd want a LOT more for MY CRF 450X.. Just sayin'. But I LOVE my bike, I'm a single track slut. If I'm not ON it my X will BEAT me... I would NOT want a R. But I really would NOT WANT a KTM just from all the breakage issues that my friends seem to have with them.

If you have choices then I would ride as many different bikes as possible. I think the GAS GAS 300 would be a kick ass bike. I've had to be the one caring and doctoring a few KTMs a 200 XC, a 300 XC, and a 450 EXC. Had lots of issues with each and everyone of them. Mainly big failures, broken frames, broken triple clamps, broken crank shafts, broken shock mounts, the list goes on... for a long ways. I'd really look at why your HONDA has issues. It's very un-HONDA-esque. Hope you figure out a bike setup you're happy with.

Never said it was soooo sweet. It is Very clean and hasnt been ridin much. The owner has another bike the 200 is the back-up and no it would not be a straight across trade. As far as the 450 its been revalved and sprung for woods and my weight,rekluse pro-z,crf-x overflow bottle,ascerbis 3gallon tank,Moose 1/2inch down and back pegs,10mm higher than stock bar mounts with reed bend pro tapers. I will say I did like alot of the characteristics of the 200 the short time I rode it. Was it easier to get back on my bike and go fast? Yes. & yes u R right about figuren out bike set-up and that is what Im frustrated about and basicaly discouraged about. I get on a 200 for approx 3 miles and it does the particular things that I am tryn to get my bike to do. Was it as smooth as my bike? NO. But immediatly after first corner I was able to trust the front wheel with what I was doing,NO the bike wasnt set up for me but it has potential. Ive heard that changing the stock triple clamp on my 450, a 20 to a 22 will help my problems and theres another $300-500. I dont know,this is all the dilema and thanks for the responses. I will be riding the 200 again with my bike back to back will see what happens. Also going to go ride with a buddy that has had the same prob's as me and see if he can help me set my bike up better. we'll See.

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Never said it was soooo sweet. It is Very clean and hasnt been ridin much. The owner has another bike the 200 is the back-up and no it would not be a straight across trade. As far as the 450 its been revalved and sprung for woods and my weight,rekluse pro-z,crf-x overflow bottle,ascerbis 3gallon tank,Moose 1/2inch down and back pegs,10mm higher than stock bar mounts with reed bend pro tapers. I will say I did like alot of the characteristics of the 200 the short time I rode it. Was it easier to get back on my bike and go fast? Yes. & yes u R right about figuren out bike set-up and that is what Im frustrated about and basicaly discouraged about. I get on a 200 for approx 3 miles and it does the particular things that I am tryn to get my bike to do. Was it as smooth as my bike? NO. But immediatly after first corner I was able to trust the front wheel with what I was doing,NO the bike wasnt set up for me but it has potential. Ive heard that changing the stock triple clamp on my 450, a 20 to a 22 will help my problems and theres another $300-500. I dont know,this is all the dilema and thanks for the responses. I will be riding the 200 again with my bike back to back will see what happens. Also going to go ride with a buddy that has had the same prob's as me and see if he can help me set my bike up better. we'll See.

Have you taken a look at the e-axle for possibly helping with your 450's front end? I don't know a whole lot about them, except what little bit I've heard and read and that they're a lot less coin than a set of triple clamps...

http://www.rekluse.com/E-axles.html

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If I were you, I'd keep the 450 and buy a beaten down $1000 mid 90's yz250. You might be surprised...

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Just a note... KTM's are well renowned for their reliability. Many of the items are that are standard on the Katoom are only available in the aftermarket on other brands, example hydraulic clutch.

The KTM 200 is a bike that the power delivery can be adjusted 100 different ways... There are different power valve springs to adjust when the "hit kicks in. It can be adjusted to as linier as dare I say four stroke like, all the way up to a light switch, all or nothing... Based on your description, the bike you were looking KTM 200 MXC was designed as a MX bike. Conversion to a woods bike is very easy. The main difference is the MXC would have the close ratio tranny, while the EXC would have a wide ratio tranny. I'm not sure id the MSC has the power output for a lighting coil or not...

Recently on a riding trip, I let a friend try out my 00 300 EXC. He just recently rebuilt his 05 CRF450 top to bottom. He only took my bike for a couple mile loop... he came back rather quickly has put it "If I ride it any more you are not getting it back." I took the 450 for a spin... To me the suspension was too harsh, I wasn't comfortable on the bike, and I could not get used to the engine braking. I guess I've been riding 2 strokes for too long. The sad part is the money he spent on the rebuild was more than I paid for my bike....

I bleed orange (I ride a KTM 300), but before you come over to the pumpkin side, get some more seat time on the bike. Consider the money you will be spending on suspension changes etc. If you are certain you cannot make Honda work for you, maybe its time to cut your losses and look else where. I know its a tuff decision, but unfortunately its one only you can make. Try out as many different bikes as you can get your hands on, 200's 250's 300's etc. The more you look, the more of an educated decision you can make.

Good luck and keep us informed.

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Braauuhhm,

Take a look at the KTM 2-stroke forum on this site. Under that is "The 200 club."

http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=596001

It is a couple pages back in the forum now. Your discussion about 450F or 200 2-stroke is covered again and again. I just switched from a wr250f to a 2003 ktm 200exc. I would say it is an awesome ride. I am mainly on single track. After a day of riding the 200 I am a lot less tired. The thing has an unbelieveable ability to lug and then go when you need it. I hadn't ridden a 2-stroke for years and I couldn't believe how I can lug the ktm. It depends where you ride but check out that other thread, there is a lot of good info on this discussion.

Aloha,

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I say try a 300 before you make the decision. I think the power on the 200 will disappoint you the first time you open it up next to one of your friends and they just walk away. Although I made the same switch I am not overly enthused with the power and I only weigh 145. Now the 300 feels comparable to the 450, although not as light and flickable as the 200 it still feels like a feather compared to the crf450.

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I weight 180lb without gear, 6-2". I switched from an 02 CRF450R to an 05 200EXC, Yes the power is not there compared to the 450, but for woods I definetly did not need the power of the 450. I do not feel like I can ride any faster on the 200, but I can last longer and I feel stable and more confident. I have really enjoyed my switch and I am very happy about it. Of course I still have the 450, if I feel so inclined to beat myself of some single track. As said before get more seat time. The only down side I found with the 200 is I did miss the big hit of the 450, I just needed to figure out how to ride the 200 and I did not care about it. The 450 definetly made me a lazier rider, since I new I had enough power to help me out. Ride the 200 for a few days if you can and see how you like it, also as stated try a 250 if you like having more power.

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I say try a 300 before you make the decision. I think the power on the 200 will disappoint you the first time you open it up next to one of your friends and they just walk away. Although I made the same switch I am not overly enthused with the power and I only weigh 145. Now the 300 feels comparable to the 450, although not as light and flickable as the 200 it still feels like a feather compared to the crf450.
I like the 300 also but Rob won't trade me his 06 and I cant afford to buy it. You walked away from me at ur place and the only way I saw u was when u stopped or we started on a straight away once we got on the trail or in the trees U and my sons were gone, I was left to do sum tree and rock wrestling on my bike. I still say ur place is 1 of the best places to ride around our area...I think maybe the less power thing might help me and being able to trust the front wheel. Im lookn into the e-axle for the 450.. The Avatar pic,do u recognize the landscape and downhill im on?

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I like the 300 also but Rob won't trade me his 06 and I cant afford to buy it. You walked away from me at ur place and the only way I saw u was when u stopped or we started on a straight away once we got on the trail or in the trees U and my sons were gone, I was left to do sum tree and rock wrestling on my bike. I still say ur place is 1 of the best places to ride around our area...I think maybe the less power thing might help me and being able to trust the front wheel. Im lookn into the e-axle for the 450.. The Avatar pic,do u recognize the landscape and downhill im on?

I do think the 200 is real hard to beat on single track woods. Since the OCCRA courses seem to be predominately that, I think the 200 will result in faster lap times but I think it will give some of that up in the open areas and the loose rocky sections. The 200 has given me more confidence to try things because I feel in charge where the 450 was intimidating.

Daniel and I have been putting in some tractor time taking ruts out of the areas we could get to. I think our track will be even more fun than ever now. It will make it a bit more friendly for the big bikes to put their power down when the terrain does open up without worrying about being grabbed by a rut! We will have to do another ride out here. The DOD group is trying to put together a dune run this weekend. Sounds like that might be a good place to rip around on the 450 to see if you can be happy on it or not.

You might just be due for a change in bikes.

tree and rock wrestling on my bike

The 200 will definitely fix that.

Here is a quote from a 2007 woods shootout:

"Despite popular belief that a big 4-stroke is best, the stop watch does not lie, and our test showed the 2-stroke KTM 200 makes most riders a hero, right out of the box, first ride, and the KTM 300 is right on its heels for making a hero out of a typical rider."

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However you want to look at it, the 450R will dominate the 200EXC on ANY MX Track, doesnt mater the conditions.

However if you are riding tight trails, (European Style) the 200EXC will be soo much nicer to ride, easier to chuck around, turns faster not to mension they arnt low on HP, and weigh a shit load less than a 450R.

Also mantinence wise, the 200 is a no brainer, a retarded pirate with nubs for arms could do a top end, when the 200 finaly needs it.

and a good pilot shouldnt have a problem getting a 200 around a MX track, it sure wont feel like the 450 but hey... it still a blast to ride.

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a ktm 200 is a really honest riders bike. if you are not very good with your controls you will struggle on a bike like this. they are not very c-rider friendly

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I was in tiis same spot a few years ago.I had have a 450x that is well setup and it just seemed like a strugle in the tight woods,get it out in the open and then it's a differant storie altogether.Bought a 250 smoker was instantly faster,not struggling near as much and wasn't near as tired at the end of the day.You can add all the goodies out there but if the bike doesn't

fit all your doing is spending dollars and still not happy.The 200's are great bikes with unlimeted possabilities.I say go for it as it sounds your not happy

now.

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Well I didnt get to ride the 200 this wkend and the guy might not want to trade now since the 08 4fitties R below 5grand now course both of us are unsure. I did reset the sag on my bike and it did help alot...I also rode my sons yzf250,I was faster on it . I'm thinking I just need less power for trails and I ride little to no MX. Im still going to work on trading for the 200. I did ride a 450x that had ALOT of Susp wrk done and was set up for my weight also, (funny it felt alot like my sons susp. Just heavier) I liked it,but thats what has helped me see that for me less power and weight is probably going to be better...I will continue to update as progress is made and thank you all for the info and replies. This is and has been a good learning experience.

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