KX60 Questions

[Smacaroni]

We traded my little girls' '99 PW80 for a 1991? (may be 92, gotta decode the VIN) KX60.

So I've got a few questions.

Fuel mix ratio, I'm getting conflicting info, 32:1, 40:1 or 50:1? If I had to guess, I'd go 32:1 cause oil fouled plugs are cheaper than crank bearings and top ends.

Plastics, do the plastics from the KX65 and KLX110 really fit right on this? Cause is sure looks like it. I also looked around, seems like the plastics from the early KX60s are the same all the way to 2003.

As suggested in another thread, I plugged up the exhaust port on the head with a 3/8" ID fender washer. This appears to do little to tame it. But it does rattle a lot. Could somebody reassure me this is the way it's supposed to be? Looks like the stock exhaust, but even before the fender washer, one O-ring was exposed.

I noticed this too late, but the one fork schrader valve is broken. Are these all the same? If so, I've got a spare one from another non-Kawasaki bike's forks I can use.

Kick stand. Mine is AWOL. The whole thing. Suggestions on a new one is appreciated. Since it'll be for trail riding, I kinda need one and will most likely fabricate my own since eBay is only selling the stand, not the whole assembly. The two I saw the other day are from the type of people I like to avoid. Buy a bike used and functional, disassemble, list everything for 80%+ the cost of new and make it barely worth the time to bid, cause Kawasaki charges almost as much new.

Besides Steahly, is there anyone else who makes a flywheel weight?

Owner's manual, or service manual PDF would be awesome. Can't seem to find one online.

Anything else you want to tell me would be appreciated.

[matt4x4]

Motor is similar to the 65 so definitely run 32:1 or you'll lose a crank.

Plastics and seat - I don't think they are interchangeable.

Exhaust - does not sound right - both orings should be inside the port opening that accepts the pipe....check for a blockage, scrape it clean, there should be one crush washer made of copper in it.

I can send you a PDF version of the 65 manual - but don't have a kx60 one - send me a pm with your email addy and I'll send it to you.

[Smacaroni]

Further investigation on body panels, the 91 KX60 and the 2000 KX65 use different part numbers according to Kawasaki.

:

1991 KX60 (SS indicates original number was superseded)

Front Fender: 35004-1230-6W (SS)

Rear Fender: 35022-1246-6W (SS)

LH Side Cover: 36010-5070-6W (SS)

RH Side Cover: 36010-5071-6W (SS)

Number Plate: 58029-5010-6W

Radiator Shroud: 49089-1056-6W (SS)

None of which match exactly to the KX65 parts.

According to Acerbis...

(give me a moment, I'm not fluent in Italian.... wait, I can't read Italian either...)

The KlX110 and KX65 use the same body panels. But they don't make one for the KX60. Which doesn't help me at all.

According to some eBay sellers, the KX65 kit fits the KX60. My guess is it's gonna take some adjustments to the panels and such.

So I might try it and see how it goes. I know the tank is different, so the original purple tank will stay. I'm debating if I want to pick up the purple radiator shroud that's on eBay now (by itself), or just go with green.

Or I might just say screw it and get the kit that's marketed just for the KX60.

For now, it's not a big deal, until I'm reasonably confident she's got a handle on this bike, the chewed up plastics can stay. (split rear fender and mangled radiator shroud, others have minor cracks. no biggie.)

[matt4x4]

yes - the kx60 is completely different when it comes to body panels.

The frame is different enough that I'm pretty sure you can't adapt the tank either, if you can't adapt the tank you're going to have a really tough time woith plastics - front fender is definitely doable - but even the rear fender won't work easy. The seat is also different and would need to be adapted.

Probably better to just get her a 65 when the time is right.

[Smacaroni]

Well after she out grows this one, she'll either end up on the KE100 or possibly a DR-Z125. The DR-Z is unlikely since I'm looking for bikes that are already street legal to comply with the regulations where we normally ride. You don't need a plate, but having one opens the areas you can ride. Since there's minimal traffic, I'd actually call it scarce, we're not too concerned about license issues, but no plate is a $275 fine.

Unfortunately, the KX 60/65 is just too small to pass off as a street legal machine even if I could get a license plate for it.

[Smacaroni]

So last night I pulled the schrader valve and the one I thought might fit out of bent forks from my XT550.

No dice, don't match. The KX60's valve appears to be slightly smaller than a 1/8" pipe thread, so the OD is somewhere in the range of 7-8 mm (1/8" pipe thread male OD is close to 3/8" - don't ask, I don't know why, the ID should be 1/8" though).

The XT550s is somewhere around 1/4" pipe fitting, but it's the metric non-tapered equivalent, it does not completely thread into a 1/4" tapered piece to convince me that it's the same thread pitch, just non-tapered.

So, while I think it's very likely that given access to a plumber's catalogue, one could find a tank valve that fits, I'm just gonna order one from Kawi when I get around to it, it's just easier, the cost difference is probably not worth the hassle.

So, here's a new question. My step-son seems to think it's possible to cook a KX60 by running it at very high RPMs for an extended period of time. My opinion is he's correct, but only if the water pump should fail or you run the radiator dry. That properly functioning, you should be able to scream this thing all day long and only damage your reputation with the neighbors.

So, who's right?

I have now used my alloted number of uses for the word "so" for the day, please feel free to point out that I say this way too often. So what.

[matt4x4]

well....this applies to ALL 2 strokes, not just the kx60.

if you're screaming down the pavement tapped out and WFO - like drag racing - you'll cook that bike in no time (probably before the end of the street). What happens is there's almost no load on the motor anymore and for some reason, that will fry the motor very fast - when you race dirt - you're on the throttle, off the throttle repeat - never do you race down straights longer than a few hundred feet and even then - the straights aren't paved, there are bumps and uneven ground which continually places a load back onto the motor. None of it will have anything to do with heat or lack of coolant - it's just how it is with 2 strokes. I've seen many a kid and adult blow up their 2 strokes like that - every time - it was on pavement in a full on drag type scenario - either to race someone or just to see how fast it goes.

[Smacaroni]

hmm... that poses an interesting question.

Cause when I say "scream all day", I mean on/off the throttle but still up in the RPM range, not a continuous stretch of straight flat pavement with minimal load on the engine.

I wonder what he's been reading and how we managed to speak possibly two different things that sound the exact same.

And of course I know I was referring to dirt/yard/field, but I have no idea if he was thinking something smooth.

*making funny thought faces, pulling beard, etc.*

[Smacaroni]

I finally got around to cleaning the carb.

Is there a trick to removing and installing it? Or is this just going to be one of those pain in the butt ones to remove and reinstall? It's not as bad as my four-carb bank to install on my street bike, but it's not the most cooperative piece either.

First, I had issues with sliding it back, the air box kept getting in the way of the choke knob. Since the bowl goes below part of the crank case, you can't just rotate the carb to avoid that. I think it might be advantageous to at least loosen the air box to make it easier.

Getting it back in, the air box side joint kept wanting to inside the carb throat instead of around it.

Is it easier to disconnect the intake manifold from the reed cage when you need to pull the carb? The carb's clean now, so I won't need to worry about it till next year when I clean the carb again.

Also, the cable nipple is kinda wobbly. It doesn't look broken, or that anything in particular is wrong, but usually this is pretty firmly in place, right?

I like the concept of the easy to swap jet by removing one plug from the carb bowl, but this seems kinda pointless if you need to remove the carb to get to it. It would make perfect sense if you could just rotate it.

I'm still investigating the head pipe to exhaust port fit. I think it's just time to replace the spring, it doesn't appear to be stretched, but it's very loose. You can hold it in place, but that's gonna be difficult, so a new spring is the answer.

The good news, the spark plug is a nice amber color, slightly rich, but that's better than lean. I'm surprised considering how gunked up the jets were. BUT... I was told this bike was parked for a while, so it was probably running just dandy and then the jets got loaded up with varnish in the time it was sitting. I'm not going to mess with anything at this point, not even gonna do a plug chop or anything since all appears well there.

Keeping my fingers crossed that Sunday she'll be riding it for the first time. I can't wait, but it's dependent upon the weather. If we go, it's gonna be a mud bath. That might make the bike a whole lot more forgiving for learning the clutch. I just have to remember to stand to the side and stay away from the rear of the bike or risk an impromptu facial.

[Smacaroni]

hmm... that poses an interesting question.

Cause when I say "scream all day", I mean on/off the throttle but still up in the RPM range, not a continuous stretch of straight flat pavement with minimal load on the engine.

I wonder what he's been reading and how we managed to speak possibly two different things that sound the exact same.

And of course I know I was referring to dirt/yard/field, but I have no idea if he was thinking something smooth.

*making funny thought faces, pulling beard, etc.*

I think I've found what he's been reading:

Pulled the jug off and found the piston scored bad on one side and the rings frozen, burned into the lands. What a bummer.

Funny thing is, it was running great. He does have a bad problem about not upshifting correctly. Sometimes he does it great, other times he will just leave it in 3rd and hold it WOT. It's almost like I need to put a shift light on it.

I also thought about taping a walkie talkie to the front part of his helmet, then doing the same thing to mine, and taping the button down on mine. That way I can talk to him while we are out riding.

Well, that's it so far.

(KXRiders: KX 60 not idleing and ticking noise)

I'm reasonably sure where we ride, the longest stretch where one could ride WOT is about 1/2 mile long, and it's uphill. Everywhere else is either too short a run for the machine to completely peak out in any given gear and stay in a no-load type of situation for long.

She still hasn't gotten to riding it yet, but I've discovered what might be a problem and it's my own fault. I didn't drain the gas like I said I was gonna after cleaning the carb. The gas that's been in the tank for at least five months.

I think I sucked some crap up in the pilot when playing in the back yard with it to test everything out. It started fine, it idled fine, then it died. Restarting was a pain. It takes a real long time to warm up and stay idling, low end bog...

Once warm, it idles fine, but still got the low end bog. Keeping it above 1/4 throttle and it's fine.

Now would be an ideal time to tell me the easy way to remove and reinstall the carb. If I don't get any advice, I'll see how hard it is to pull the air box to get easy access to the carb.

Thanks in advance.

[matt4x4]

Sounds exactly like an RM85 I fixed this weekend - it was all plug related.

I'm trying to see what the problem is with getting the carb off the kx60...it should be as simple as attacking it from the right side - it looks like you have all the room in the world because of the offset airbox, loosening both rings, pulling the carb towards the back out of the reed cage and twisting it out towards you then sliding it out of the air boot forwards - it looks easier than on the KX65 where it's a little tighter all around, but it's simple as anything on the 65 - the air boot is very flexible on it and allows for all that movement.

[Smacaroni]

it would be simple, but the choke knob interferes with the air box, so you can't pull it straight back.

Rotating the carb so the choke knob isn't in the way isn't possible the carb bowl keeps you from rotating it in either direction. Clockwise (in the orientation of sitting on the bike), it hits the air box. CCW, there's a bit of the transmission case in the way AND the carb slide body will gets in the way of the air box.

I'm really thinking removing, or at least loosening the air box is the way to go for the room to make it easy.

I do like the tab to pull the air box side joint over the carb mouth though, that is once you get the left side on.

Maybe it's one of those things that gets easier in time, perhaps the second go around will prove less difficult.

Either way, I'm draining the stale gas first! Not gonna make the same mistake twice.

Spark plug does seem reasonable as well. From the plug, I'm taking a wild guess that at some point in it's life, the bike was on leaded fuel. It's got the distinct yellow color on the insulator. But it doesn't look lead fouled.

Of course, I'm saying this with little experience to go on, since I haven't seen leaded gas at the pump since the mid to late 80s.

I think I'll throw a new plug in and see what happens, it's way easier than pulling the carb.

Since we're on the subject of carbs, anyone try a reed spacer? This should make it even more difficult to remove the carb, but perhaps move the power down a bit in the RPM range.

$30 shipped: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KAWASAKI-MOOSE-REED-SPACER-KITS-KX60-KX65-1983---2008_W0QQitemZ110437378769QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090922?IMSfp=TL090922149007r20348

But I'm reasonably sure I can make one using the gaskets as a guide, in about 20 minutes.

On a completely unrelated note, I found this while searching for information for people who can stand on one foot or touch their nose with their eyes open, so don't ask me how it got in there:

Edited October 20, 2009 by Smacaroni

[Smacaroni]

Sounds exactly like an RM85 I fixed this weekend - it was all plug related.

Turned out to be a plug. New plug, fired up second kick and now first or second kick each time.

I'm guessing it was lead fouled, due to the yellow/tan color for an overall amber glow. But definitely looked like a leaded gas fingerprint on the plug, so that's what I'm sticking with right now, if it happens again, I'll look for other possible causes.

On a related note, as I mentioned before, this bike came with a motoplat internal flywheel and stator. Which has made all my other power/power band related comments about a bike that's very different than a normal KX60. So I'm looking to put it back to stock.

The question is, can I put a 99 flywheel, stator, CDI and plug coil on this 91 or 92 bike if I do them all? I think so.

Part number research reveals that the crank case (14001-5151) and LH crank half (13037-1240) is the same across the whole KX60 run.

The flywheel and stator however are different between the 83-96, (21007-1237) and (21003-1240) respectively, and 97-2003 (21003-1308) and (21007-1316). The CDI is also different 83-90 (21119-1115), 91-96 (21119-1312) and 97+ (21119-1485).

The coil is really interesting, 83 and 84 are different from each other 85-90 is different and so is 91-2003 (21121-1186). Oddly enough, this coil was also on the KX500 and KX65 till 2005

So I'm pretty sure as long as you have the whole mess, from the same year, you'll be fine. Is there anyone who can see a flaw in my logic?

[Smacaroni]

I got my hands on a 95 parts bike, busted crank.

My research indicated that this is the same generation as the 91, so I wasn't able to answer my own question above, but I'm pretty sure I got everything I needed, except a woodruff key, I'll pick that up tonight.

Now, what I do need to know, is which is the best advance/retard setting for a woods bike w/ a 12 oz FWW? I'm guessing by running it retarded, it will be less snappy, but I'd rather not have to pull the cover repeatedly to test it out.

[Smacaroni]

Ok, well further experimentation has yielded the following:

Full retard w/ an exhaust washer, the bike doesn't want to idle warm. Really, really easy to start though cold. Requires increasing the idle throttle position to keep it idling. As I suspected, it's very laid back on power delivery.

No advance/no retard, bike is a little harder to start cold, but it idles normal. Even with the 12 oz FWW, it seems to deliver the power quickly. Still pretty peppy little bike.

So I think I'm going to give my daughter a little time with the bike, if she doesn't like it the way it is now, retard the timing to about 1/2 the maximum and gradually add timing back in again.

I'm not sure how the bike would behave full retard w/o the exhaust washer, I'll post back later when I take it out. It is easier to add/remove timing than it is to add/remove an exhaust washer.

Eric Gorr notes that advancing the timing should make it run better mid range, and it's likely to crap out at higher RPMs, which might not be bad in some cases. He also notes that retarded the burn may continue into the exhaust pipe. Not good. However, I don't think that Eric is writing about an engine with a fender washer stuffed in the exhaust.

I've since discovered the KX65 cylinder is practically the same as the KX60 water cooled cylinder, all the gaskets, reeds, reed block and head are the same. Haven't gotten to exploring the crank case.

More unrelated stuff:

Does this look familiar?

It's a KX60 with KX80 forks 17” wheels (RS front with RS125 brake).

Monster KX60 a.k.a. Screaming Cricket (scroll way down)

Edited November 17, 2009 by Smacaroni

[Smacaroni]

New question, does anyone have a much harder time starting the bike in gear than in neutral? It kicks the same, I feel no clutch drag at all, but it takes quite a number of kicks to get the thing to start in gear.

This may not be a bad thing, but I'm wondering if this is an intentional feature or if it's a bug?

Also, I'm suspecting plug fouling is going to be a problem in the short term, can anyone say if going a few steps hotter on the plug will be detrimental?

Edited December 4, 2009 by Smacaroni

[Racerex]

The KX65 of ours came with a plug 2 #s hotter, seems to be running OK by color. Stock is B10EG, running B8ES. Your KX60 stock NGK is B9EG, B7ES is not commonly stocked where I shop, but should work well if your not working the engine too hard. Don't know if it is plug related, but this KX has been hard to start cold since we got it. Still thinking about why, starts great when up to temp. even in gear.

[Smacaroni]

Thanks for the info. For reference, I'm pretty sure the plug fouling is entirely due to the exhaust washer AND a new rider who hasn't mastered "on the pipe" riding.

I'll see if the local auto parts store stocks the 7 for the interim. If not, they can usually order almost anything within a day to two.