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Xr600r engine damage...

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Bought a Honda xr600r in mint condition 2 weeks ago...

It ran pretty good and lots of things have been replaced by the previous owner.

Drove it home, about 130km on the highway, about 90-110 km/h. It ran great, and the massive torque made me very happy. :foul:

During the next week I heared a *clunk* once, but didn't pay much attention to it as it was still running good. My shift mechanism became stuck, could loose it up by gently tapping on the shift pedal. When I was moving the bike to my garage, rolling it forward in gear with the cluch in, I heared a grinding noise. Thats when I decided to take it appart.

Then I found this:

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Here we go again, i've never purchased a vehicle which didn't need a rebuild... :smirk:

-I think the piston needs changing... :excuseme:

-Crankshaft is blue around the bigend. I can't feel any play though... What should I do with it?

-Small-end looks ok, but has copper-colored parts... Replace or not?

-Camshaft middle bearing look ok. I don't *feel* any damage, but you can see a mark..

-Nicasil plating is scratched a bit. Not even too bad considering the piston..

It looks like this cilinder has an aluminium sleeve.

There are wiseco sleeves for the Nicasil plated cilinders on ebay...? Are these wiseco sleeves alu sleeve's or cast iron? And do they have nikasil plating?

How can you put a sleeve in an 88-90 nikasil cilinder? :bonk:

-One camshaftlobe is damaged. Altough it doesn't look very bad, (it is smooth) it is about 2mm lower then the other lobes...

I'm never going to buy a *fully rebuild* engine again..

Kind of amazing that the bike still ran pretty good and started first kick... damn this could have locked the rear wheel and cause some serious accidents..

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The "clunk"....check the transmission gears. The 600 has a notoriously weak third gear, dogs break off and cause damage.

Piston....doesn't look good, take some measurements.

Crankshaft....blueing is normal; top end of rod is galled, looks bad, again take measurement.

Camshaft seat....not too bad, polish it up a bit.

Cam lobe...If it is scuffed and metal worn off, it is toast.

Cylinder wall....looks bad, may be beyond repair, check prices for boring and installing an iron liner.

Rocker arms....one looks a littled scuffed; if scuffing is present, needs replaced.

Check your PM box.

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Piston....doesn't look good, take some measurements.

LOL check out the first picture again! :excuseme:

Thanks for your offer and advises!

Because this cilinder has nikasil, and an aluminium liner (i think) I don't know if I can resleeve (whitout new nikasil plating). Wiseco offers sleeves. I'm going to send them an email.

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It truly sucks when your new scoot blows up...good news though is after this you will have a bike you know and can trust.....bummer still.

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Looks like a classic oil pump failure to me... Don't ask me how? Check the oil pump to see if gasket or sealant material somehow got into it. My 2 cents.

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here is a used jug on fleabay that may be a easier solution to installing a sleeve the one you have, not sure if its a direct bolt on but remember reading the ole 600 never changed much with the exception of the plated bores like you have. I am NOT the seller, just always searching for parts

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/85-87-Honda-XR600-XR-600-Cylinder-Jug-Piston_W0QQitemZ220514385749QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotorcycles_Parts_Accessories?hash=item3357ae7f55

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1.) -Crankshaft is blue around the bigend. I can't feel any play though... What should I do with it?

2.) -Small-end looks ok, but has copper-colored parts... Replace or not?

3.) -Camshaft middle bearing look ok. I don't *feel* any damage, but you can see a mark..

4.) -How can you put a sleeve in an 88-90 nikasil cilinder? :excuseme:

5.) -One camshaftlobe is damaged. Altough it doesn't look very bad, (it is smooth) it is about 2mm lower then the other lobes...

1.) The bluing is completely normal and happened when Honda heated the crankshaft halves during assembly.

2.) Measure the small end bore and see if it's within spec. If not, you'll need a new connecting rod.

3.) I see wear, but nothing to be concerned about.

4.) You have a bore the aluminum cylinder out and install an iron sleeve.

5.) I would replace the cam and rockers. The rockers look decent, but I wouldn't want old ones to pick a fight with a new cam...

That '85-87 XR600 cylinder on eBay is not a direct replacement for the '88-00 cylinder. The '85-87 head bolts and dowels are smaller.

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oil pump failure will cause damage to the camshaft and rocker arms first.

the piston broke because something else not oil issue for sure.

the small end doesnt look good, put the piston pin inside it and check if there a clearness, it looks like u will need a rod replace.

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That's what I was thinking; the piston looks way too good to have suffered oil starvation. I'm not sure why it broke, but too much piston-to-cylinder clearance can cause the piston to slap and lose a skirt...

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That small end looks totally shagged unless it's a trick of the light.. Any sort of ridging in there and it's a new Rod job.,,Hate to say but I reckon about 5-700 worth of bits. May as well do all the bearings as well.

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The bearings and some of the tranny sprockets were replaced by the previous owner. Also the camshaft, the rockers, the piston. And he said the cilinder was honed... (not shure about that, there's VERY little crosshatch visible and I doubt it would lose all crosshatch in 900km...)

Also, nicasil can't be honed...or maybe once.

It looks like there's a sleeve in this cilinder. Weird but true. When you look at the cilinderdeck you see a ring as if a sleeve is pressed in there. Has to be an aluminum sleeve as no magnet sticks to it.

I guess it will be about 500 bucks of parts when I buy most of it from ebay...and some machining costs. :excuseme:

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If your cylinder actually has an aluminum sleeve installed, maybe it can be pressed out instead of bored out.

The Nikasil can be honed, but it is done very lightly and not with a regular hone(diamond hone perhaps?).

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the cylinder doesn't look good, the nksil benefit are low friction light and low cost recoating.

try to find were u can recoat it, u can look in KTM dealers.

it may be chipper then a new sleeve.

if u ask me, i would say split that engine and check all the gears and replace the rod.

replace the middle gasket with OEM one and without that ugly silicone, i used "honda bond" (gray) although i didnt have to.

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the cylinder doesn't look good, the nksil benefit are low friction light and low cost recoating.

try to find were u can recoat it, u can look in KTM dealers.

it may be chipper then a new sleeve.

if u ask me, i would say split that engine and check all the gears and replace the rod.

replace the middle gasket with OEM one and without that ugly silicone, i used "honda bond" (gray) although i didnt have to.

I would agree that cracking the cases is a good idea as the chunks of piston skirt went who knows where:busted:. Akarob posted a great video a few weeks back that shows you how to get the cases apart without using the caveman method that I used (trust me... his is better:smirk:) As was earlier stated, some of the gears in early XR600R (I thought it was forth on the main and counter?) have half as many engagement dogs as do the later 650L gears. If they are busted up in your trans, I would consider replacing them with 650L cogs as the 650L cogs slide right in.

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That '85-87 XR600 cylinder on eBay is not a direct replacement for the '88-00 cylinder. The '85-87 head bolts and dowels are smaller.

whoops thanks Mr. trauma.:banghead:

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2mm of wear on a cam lobe? Man that's HORRIBLE. The cam looks really bad too. There's no f'n way that was recently replaced.

Not sure why a piston would break like that. Was the engine rattleing loudly? If not, I'm not sure.

Well, if you have any questions with rebuilding, just ask - a lot of the guys here have done this before.

Good luck.

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Thanks for all the replies guys! You are all really helpfull!

I've already split the cases. No problem, i've done this more often...

Indeed I found the rest of the piston in there.. Chunked up in little pieces.. :banghead:

Trying to get a new camshaft, connecting rod, cilinder sleeve, wiseco piston and rockersarms on ebay right now..

To easy my pain I'm probably going to put in a bigbore wiseco piston and sleeve. :worthy: A wiseco piston on ebay (140,- dollar) is cheaper then a prox piston here in the Netherlands anyways. (about 173 dollar :cheers: )

Because i'm still a student with a very small budget it sucks to buy all those parts...

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Well, I just did some major Ebay shopping!

All new stuff:

-Wiseco 11:1 pison 1mm oversize. 149 dollar

-Hotrods connecting rod. 113 dollar

-Hotcams camshaft. 148 dollar.

-4 rocker arms. 64 dollar

-cometic gasketkit.

about 68 dollar shipping costs..

Nicasil plating is about 260 dollar at the cheapest place around here...

and some machining costs for installing the conrod..

Sigh.... it sucks that im just a poor engineering student... :banghead:

But still A LOT cheaper than buying it in the Netherlands... :cheers:

Edited by Ilja

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Now, I may be wrong here but I thought I’d post my piece:

Is everyone sure that the XR600 cylinder has a liner AND it is nicasil plated?

So far as I know, this family of engines only has traditional liners. Mine does anyway.

Nicasil is not used on liners but directly on the inner face of the cylinder, which is honed to a smooth finish and then plated, therefore eliminating the need of a liner. This in turn means that normally you don't have a liner AND nicasil plating. Then again, I suppose, you could plate a liner, but what would be the purpose of that?

Have I got it wrong???

Manos

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