96-2010 DR650SE Fuel Injection Project....

[mxrob]

Still no 5th gear roll on wheelies?

Maybe the next project can be a custom crankcase designed to take TWO 725cc pistons

No damn it!... and I was so looking forward to that. Turbo you say?

[mxrob]

6 speed conversion...

Now that would be a challenge......

[caymanwent]

Now that would be a challenge......

How about some sort of intermediate LO/HI gear transfer case ala big rigs??

[Whitefox]

You just gave me a very strange but viable idea, I might share after I've mulled out the details (as to not look too idiotic..)

[qwerty1234]

You just gave me a very strange but viable idea, I might share after I've mulled out the details (as to not look too idiotic..)

Are you thinking what i'm thinking?

[Whitefox]

LOL! Sorry but that's not even in the same ballpark. That thing would be dangerous under power..

What I'm 99% sure will work is rather simple, totals about 30 individual parts, selectable 1:1 or 3:1, and reasonably solid. I don't wanna derail this thread anymore, so if this merits its' own thread, let's make one. I think this could be seriously bad-ass for you dirt/trail guys craving crawling gears and highway speeds.

Of course who needs more gears when you have all that FI power and smoothness on tap, right Rob?

[WOLFDOG]

If you were to advise someone that was thinking of fuel injecting there DR 650, what MS system or version would you sugest they use as there is a few different types to choose from.

I had a brief look at the MS site the other night, and was a bit overwhelmed with the ocean of information one needs to absorb in order to start to get a grip of what you need to know before embarking on such a project.

When you get the time later down the track, is it going to be possible to compile an itemised list of all the bits you have used for your injection project.

I fear im slowly getting interested in the idea, the only real obstical for me that I can see is finding the time to launch into it, I dont seem to be able to bend time and space like you can, I can only find 24 hours in a day and its pretty much already accounted for.

.

[mxrob]

Yes, I plan on a install write up like the FCR-MX, GSXR exhaust, led install... etc that I have done in the past. Too much info to sift through on the FI thread. You guys don't care about what didn't work right? Finding the time to sit down and write up said install process is the issue right now... I'd much rather be out riding my bike and testing ya know? Building FCR-MX's also takes up some time. I will get to it fairly soon though.

[WOLFDOG]

Yes, I plan on a install write up like the FCR-MX, GSXR exhaust, led install... etc that I have done in the past. Too much info to sift through on the FI thread. You guys don't care about what didn't work right? Finding the time to sit down and write up said install process is the issue right now... I'd much rather be out riding my bike and testing ya know? Building FCR-MX's also takes up some time. I will get to it fairly soon though.

Yeah, get out and enjoy all your hard work, take it for a big trip some where, im off on a 3 day ride tomorrow, sometimes you gota have a break from the work cycle routine and refresh with a get away ride

[msiddalingaiah]

Yeah, get out and enjoy all your hard work, take it for a big trip some where, im off on a 3 day ride tomorrow, sometimes you gota have a break from the work cycle routine and refresh with a get away ride

I started writing up some of my conversion:

http://www.madhu.com/content/Main/FuelInjection

It's fuel only and far from complete, but it hits the highlights. I plan to add more detail as time allows. PM me if you have questions and I'll fill in the gaps on the website.

[NordieBoy]

Been on the dyno yet Rob?

[mxrob]

Nope... the shop got busy with a couple of road race bikes that took precedence over the lowly DR650FI. ? That's OK... they cut me some slack on dyno time $$ if I let them schedule my time when they are not busy. Trying for Wednesday... ?

[mxrob]

OK, I have an appointment for tomorrow on the dyno at 12 noon. We are figuring 4 to 5 hours of dyno time. Gotta make sure to bring my ear plugs. ?

[drdave_2006]

Been reading with interest this thread. Something i may look into later. Very interesting all the little sensors that are used to make it all work.. Just having trouble with my car at the moment so been reading up on how my car works. Got told a new ecu is $2000. But got second hand for $300. And second hand distributor for $220. Anyway. It makes you wonder how they tune cars and bikes from new? If you are able to tune better with a programmable system. Must just come down to emmissions maybe. If other people were to FI a DR 650. I guess we could just put MX_ROBS numbers in and be pretty well tuned and just tweak if we need too. cheers David

[HeadTrauma]

Manufacturers have just about endless resources with regard to tuning their production engines. It is not often that one of us can do a genuinely better job with the same equipment.

[Whitefox]

Don't forget that there are different tuning agendas that they follow. Power, economy, emissions, engine longevity/safety, etc. Also if you are tuning your own engine management, chances are you aren't running everything else stock either so factory numbers go out the window.

[CDS 1]

dude U make us all proud,

what a great day 4 U man

Time 2 spank that pig.

leave em squeal en from the feel en

and Oink in from the boink-en

[mxrob]

Speaking of numbers going out the window... And here I thought I couldn't have my cake and eat it too. I've been worried over the larger bore 42mm FI throttle body, considering my experience with the 42mm FCR, hacking up the torque on the DR650's power band. I was so hoping to keep the torque of the 39 FCR and gain the HP of the 42 FCR. Mission accomplished! Torque is a wash with some gains in some places and losses in others... certainly better than the 42 FCR and so much smoother and controlled. Right off the bottom is much better probably due to the superior timing control. HP is nearly the same as well until it hits around 4800 rpm... then the FI smokes the 39 FCR and pulls 48.4 HP @ 6625 rpm! ? Check out that over run... I have to rev it out to almost 7300 rpm to get the power back down to the maximum that the 39 FCR puts out. ?

Boy am I happy! Testing went well... never had to remove one screw from the bike during the entire 4 hour dyno marathon. Tuning by laptop is sweet! We tested timing extremes and really could not do better than the 25 degrees max advance Suzuki uses. We did make some improvements in the lower RPM high load areas since the stock ignition can't change timing based on throttle position like the FI bike can. I thought I had the bike pretty close... but it was further off than when I first showed up with my FCR's to test. Of course I have a lot more time wrapped up in FCR tuning and much more to think about with FI. All I can say is tuning on a dyno is the only way to fly. You can load the engine exactly where you want it and at whatever RPM you want. On the fly tuning allowed me to adjust the bins as the dyno operator loaded the engine and we could watch the dyno output and AFR/EGA info change... once we got it right we burned memory and went on the next RPM/Load combination. Very cool!

So I have to spend some more time with starting enrichments and warm up enrichments. I will also continue to fine tune the accel enrichments. The whole accel enrichment system is so complex and adjustable I haven't really got a total handle on all the adjustments. That will just take some time and experience. I will be setting up a spark plug thermistor for engine temp sensing. My fancy copper R450 water temp sensor doodad looks cool but is less than ideal. ?

So there we have it... Wasted Spark pure Alpha-N is basically done but a bit of final tinkering. Next is getting VR2 working so I can run full sequential to see if I can use the MAP sensor in at least a blended algorithm. That will take completely different VE tables if I can get it to work so my DR has likely not seen the last of the dyno... Besides, we have a 725cc kit to think about right??

Edited September 30, 2010 by mx_rob

[caymanwent]

Rob, that is AWESOME, Man!!! I don't even want to think what the 725 might do with this mod...50+ EASY!!

[HeadTrauma]

And here I thought I couldn't have my cake and eat it too. I've been worried over the larger bore 42mm FI throttle body, considering my experience with the 42mm FCR, hacking up the torque on the DR650's power band. I was so hoping to keep the torque of the 39 FCR and gain the HP of the 42 FCR. Mission accomplished!

EFI generally allows for larger throttle bodies than carburetion because the adminitration of fuel is not so dependent on velocity and pressure differentials as you found out. The current CRF450R makes 48rwhp and has a 50mm TB....a lot larger than the carb it replaced.

I figure my 628cc XR will get a 42mm carb when I decide to install a pumper and it makes peak power a good 700-800rpm lower than your 650. I don't need a rev limiter because I can just wait till it starts to nose over and then upshift. ?