What bike for heavy woods rider.

[cam_229]

Hey guys, I need some advice on what I should do here, I currently own a near new 09 KX450F, which I was planning to use for MX and a bit of woods. But due to a recent injury, I am going to be riding mostly all woods/trails and maybe the odd practice day on the MX track. I am 6ft 4" and 120kg, so a big dude.

These are the options I have come up with so far

1; Keep the KX, spend $2500 aproxx modding for woods, but then its still big and heavy for tight single track, and after coming off a 250F I got bad armpump on this thing after only 6 laps at the local MX.

2; Sell up, and go for 450 4st enduro (WRF CRFX etc.), way less mods needed for woods, more docile=less armpump, but even heavier than KX..

3; 250 2st, modded for woods, light, agile, near no armpump. But will it have the grunt to lug my 120kg ass around ???

4; Go back to a 250F, I had a 09 CRF250R last season and had no problem in woods, no armpump, enough power, but not too much. Maybe a 250EXC-F, electric start, 18" rear, wide ratio gear box, lights (we have one night race each year)....

ATM i'm thinking between the 250 2st or a enduro spec 250F, EXCF etc....I have never owned a 2t, if I could be sure it would have enough grunt to pull me up a muddy, snotty hillclimb I would love to give it a shot, something like a KTM 250 or maybe 300 EXC 2T could just be perfect..... but still after some advice, from others.

Cheers

[MXP553]

Try and find a KTM 250 or 300 EXC/XC. They "Feel" 30 lbs less than a 450 and have all the Woods work already done for you...There is a reason 70% of bikes at many Enduros are orange! The 300XC is a top pick of many big guys as it has a ton of grunt. My Buddy Jim is 6'6" 280lbs...He loves his 525EXC four stroke. I like it too just a bit heavy fo my taste on the side of a slippery hill....But it does have the magic button!!!!

[cam_229]

Hmmmmm now you mention yes there is definatly a sea of orange at our local enduro series. I'm liking the idea of either the 300EXC or 250EXCF, only factor is e-start, do any 2T's come with a magic button ?

[MXP553]

The new 300 and 250XC have the button..Although I wonder why you would need it..@ strokes start on the first kick almost 100% of teh time! I have rode many KTM models, my friend owns a dealer ship..The 250XCF doesn't have any lowend at all! If I was going that route I wold get a 450EXC from 04 newer..E start,They hide the weight well and are almost XR reliable!

But I like smokers and ride a SX200KTM, but if I was any heavier, or rode off road more than MX I would be on a 250XC...not really any faster, just more torque...The 300 really picks up a Open Bike power feel..So much bottom end that it lifts the front tire out of ruts..I like that the 250 has a bit softe powr off idle. The Twohunny has a magic motor..Runs like a trials bike down low then rips llike a Factory bigbore 125cc MX bike on top...NIRVANA!!!

The KTMs also have quality parts through out..Even like Hardened clutch baskets and such stock. May not be sexy, but makes it long lasting! If I was a real big guy (Im 6'2" 190 w/o gear) and wanted a tourqer I would by a 300Xc

[supervokes]

Have to counter this argument a bit... I have a CRF450R set up exclusively for woods (rekluse.. flywheel, cam, etc.) and rode a KTM300EXC and it was not even close to my own setup.

The 300EXC was like a light switch (typically 2 stroke) ... no power (compared to the 450T anyway) down low and then a large HIT in the mid-range. Very hard to control the light switch powerband. Maybe compared to the 250 2-strokes, the 300 has low end, but its NOT EVEN CLOSE to a 450 thumper. Not even in the same ballpark!!

I don't see in ANY WAY how in stock form this bike can be good for the woods??

****Perhaps with some mods it CAN BE a great woods weapon, but the stock one I rode was anything but. Disclaimer: I am giving you an opinion on a stock one ... kind of unfair because I am not comparing it to a stock 450 in this instance.

I was really surprised because everybody goes on how great these things are for the woods right out of the box. I was seriously considering buying one. After riding one though, I'll stick to the low end torque that a 450 4T provides.

So long story short ... IMO they BOTH need mods for the woods. Personally I would sacrifice the added weight of the 450 in exchange for the amazing no comparison low end torque. If your strong enough to handle it, it should be no problem.

But seriously try one out first. Don't make assumptions that they are the "ultimate" woods weapon based on internet opinion (or that they are not based on this one). I almost bought one, and after riding one, am VERY glad I did not. Ride one (demo days, etc.) and make your own opinion. First hand experience is the way to go when your dropping tons of $$$.

[MXP553]

To bad most areas have no demo days..And the ones that do its a parking lot ride. Whats that tell you?

Best is try and ride someone elses you meet online or at the dealership if they ride. Andy has hooked guys up with a ride several times before a sale..Hes a good dealer!

I have never understood the two stroke argument. I have been riding for 30 years and can ride anything, but find most four strokes don't respond fast enough, and the ones that do, and I like most guys say are too pipey..??? Like the 06 CRF450 my friend had. Explosive power, light feeliing, but ate a valve and locked up...$2200 later..he had the same bike..No thanks.

Oh I know.."They never do that..er..you just are a hater..Er insert reliability story here.." But once you ride a 2 stroke for a weekend you will use the revvy nature to your advantage..And they cost way less to rebuild after a OSh*t moment. But I agree..If you can ride a few differant bikes, you will have a much better idea.

[Derbo250X]

If spending a considerable amount of extra coin doesn't bother you, look into the Husaberg Fe570 or FE450. I'm a 200lb 250F rider who wanted more power without the armpump and fatigue that bigbore 4stks. bring with them. I found nirvana in the FE450.

It rides like my 250F, super flickable and changes direction almost telepathically. The fuel injection delivers the 450's power in such a smooth and consistant way it defies description. I have found the perfect balance of power and handling in this new bike and it's a blast to ride. The traction this thing finds is incredible and it feels like I'm cheating my way through the ride as it rewards me with forward progress even with bad line selection or questionable body position. If you get a chance to ride one, I would only recommend it if you can afford buy it.

Derik

[hawaiidirtrider]

Hey guys, I need some advice on what I should do here, I currently own a near new 09 KX450F, which I was planning to use for MX and a bit of woods. But due to a recent injury, I am going to be riding mostly all woods/trails and maybe the odd practice day on the MX track. I am 6ft 4" and 120kg, so a big dude.

These are the options I have come up with so far

1; Keep the KX, spend $2500 aproxx modding for woods, but then its still big and heavy for tight single track, and after coming off a 250F I got bad armpump on this thing after only 6 laps at the local MX.

2; Sell up, and go for 450 4st enduro (WRF CRFX etc.), way less mods needed for woods, more docile=less armpump, but even heavier than KX..

3; 250 2st, modded for woods, light, agile, near no armpump. But will it have the grunt to lug my 120kg ass around ???

4; Go back to a 250F, I had a 09 CRF250R last season and had no problem in woods, no armpump, enough power, but not too much. Maybe a 250EXC-F, electric start, 18" rear, wide ratio gear box, lights (we have one night race each year)....

ATM i'm thinking between the 250 2st or a enduro spec 250F, EXCF etc....I have never owned a 2t, if I could be sure it would have enough grunt to pull me up a muddy, snotty hillclimb I would love to give it a shot, something like a KTM 250 or maybe 300 EXC 2T could just be perfect..... but still after some advice, from others.

Cheers

Get the 250/300 2 stroke. A 250 2 stroke has plenty of beans to haul you anywhere. I am over 6 and around 225 and my 01 cr 250 is plenty good. I also have an 09 Beta 525 RS that has an 07 ktm motor. That bike is awesome too but just add 30lbs more but street legal . So if you have to do any hard offroad go 2 stroke. My Beta is light for a 4 stroke 260 wet with a half tank of gas. Still if you ever have to lift it you know the difference.

I vote ktm300,maybe husky 300 or a variety of 250's with a flywheel weight on it. If you want a four stroke buy a Beta it is easy to ride slow or fast and it is so stable. There are some great end of the year deals too!!

[supervokes]

To bad most areas have no demo days..And the ones that do its a parking lot ride. Whats that tell you?

Best is try and ride someone elses you meet online or at the dealership if they ride. Andy has hooked guys up with a ride several times before a sale..Hes a good dealer!

I have never understood the two stroke argument. I have been riding for 30 years and can ride anything, but find most four strokes don't respond fast enough, and the ones that do, and I like most guys say are too pipey..??? Like the 06 CRF450 my friend had. Explosive power, light feeliing, but ate a valve and locked up...$2200 later..he had the same bike..No thanks.

Oh I know.."They never do that..er..you just are a hater..Er insert reliability story here.." But once you ride a 2 stroke for a weekend you will use the revvy nature to your advantage..And they cost way less to rebuild after a OSh*t moment. But I agree..If you can ride a few differant bikes, you will have a much better idea.

I am surprised you guys don't have demo days at a track or somewhere other than a parking lot?>?

If price is your main consideration, than by all means go 2 stoke. If its not, its hard to match the low end grunt of a 4 stroke. Fix up that KXF450R.

Yes they need more care than 2 T, but I can tell you from experience

1) 180 hours on a 450X - no valve adjustments - person I sold it to did intakes 70 hours later. This equals 250 hours on bike

2) 120 hours on 450R - valves needed shim (1st time ever). Replaced head to be pro-active

So you need to ask yourself ... how many hours do you plan on riding and can you afford to do the maintenance?? If your OK with at LEAST 150 hours on your bike before valves, and are OK with a LOT of pro-active maintenance AND ** your OK with the added weight... keep your 450 4stroke. If not, get a 2 stroke.

On an equal comparison, the 2 stokes cannot even come close to low end grunt of your 450 4T. Anybody that tells you they do is smoking some funny stuff or is simply a 2 stroke diehard. The same analogy used above can be applied to the 2T crowd as well ..."They have great low end..er..you just are a 2T hater..Er insert low-end power story here.. yeah it has the same". The reality is that "valve stories" are 99% of the time about "a friend of mine" or "this guy I knew", rather than 1st hand experience. Well I have provided some real numbers for you ....

I like 2 strokes, and I have always been intrigued by them ... but not for use in the woods. I prefer tractor like torque instead of light switch power. If I were racing across the dunes, it would be an EASY decision .. 2T all the way. In the woods, not even a consideration for me.

To each his own I guess ... Find one to demo if you can. I am sure you'll be able to make a decision based on that alone.

I knew by posting this, I would come under the attack of the "2 stroke forever" crowd, but I, like everybody else here is just offering an opinion. Demo one and decide for yourself. You might end up liking the 2 stoke ... who knows?? I don't but a lot of people do.

Edited December 20, 2009 by supervokes

[hawaiidirtrider]

You know when you say "woods riding" that covers a broad spectrum of riding. It can mean some open single track with some roads and it can mean very tight hard trails with mean obstacles;rocks ,uphills,logs downhills etc. The biggest problem I have had and have experienced with friends with 4 strokes in the woods deal with overheating. It gets bad with 2 strokes too but the 4 strokes on the whole have it harder. If you are riding more open trails that isn't a factor much and you don't need to get rid of your bike. When someone says woods riding I think of the kind of riding where I ride and that may not be the kind of riding you are talking about. For my honda and my Beta I have taken measures to deal with overheating as best as possible. There are times when a bike needs to be pushed and carried. Those are the times I rather have the lighter 2 stroke.

[07ATKEnduro]

I ride a ATK 406 and for tight single track i have found it hard for anything that matches up to it besided the KTM 300 and GG 300, which are better machines besides the low end torque. I had a 450 and they are just too heavy and don't carry enough gas for any serious off road. the 4T mx bikes aren't made to go for long times without overheating. I rode with a guy that had a crf450x and it seemed to not overheat as much, but the tank size was a killer.

[MXP553]

Most of the guys who have had to put big bucks in a four stroke are still crying and hanging thier heads to own the mistake..LOL!

I had a KTM RFS that went south on me..there, that is a FROM the guy story. I fixed it my self after almost a grand in parts and topend work..I sold it right after that and never bought another one. I would NEVER buy a CRF/CRX..NEVER! The 250F is a time bomb. NO Honda shop would ever say to go 150 hours without checking the valves. My buddy was told he should be checking his valves every8 hours..He had about 40 hours on his when it blew...No thanks.

Sorry to hijack the thread..but realty is what it is..Jeff is on a RM250 now by the way..He paid less for it than his major rebuild. you will adapt to any bike...Think with your wallet, and for gods sake don't buy a new bike...You lose $2000 just buy taking it out the door!

[supervokes]

Most of the guys who have had to put big bucks in a four stroke are still crying and hanging thier heads to own the mistake..LOL!

I had a KTM RFS that went south on me..there, that is a FROM the guy story. I fixed it my self after almost a grand in parts and topend work..I sold it right after that and never bought another one. I would NEVER buy a CRF/CRX..NEVER! The 250F is a time bomb. NO Honda shop would ever say to go 150 hours without checking the valves. My buddy was told he should be checking his valves every8 hours..He had about 40 hours on his when it blew...No thanks.

Sorry to hijack the thread..but realty is what it is..Jeff is on a RM250 now by the way..He paid less for it than his major rebuild. you will adapt to any bike...Think with your wallet, and for gods sake don't buy a new bike...You lose $2000 just buy taking it out the door!

All I am pointing out is that you are making fairly "conclusive" statements ... for example ALL 4 strokes are going to explode, etc. etc. This is NOT TRUE in the slightest. And valve checks every 8 hours, sure "nice to do", but lets be serious ....

My point .... We all know stories about bikes exploding ... BOTH 2 and 4 strokes (I know 2 bikes that exploded this year and they were ironically both 2 stroke 250's ... one due to rider error though). Sure they were cheap to fix, but that doesn't mean much when your out stranded in the middle of the woods with a seized engine (being towed out by a 4T no less). Does that mean 2T's are less reliable ... absolutely not.

The reality is that all new 4t's are very reliable from all the manufacurers. And 2 T's have a well proven track record.

I knew this would end up in a 2T rider cult barrage, but my opinion is still the same. I would never ride a 2T for a woods bike. That is just my opinion and agree or disagree, its not going to change. Having said that, a LOT of people will have the opposite opinion. I can respect that.

Only one way to 100% decide ... ride each one. EIther way, my or anybody's else's opinion should not matter.

Ride whatever brings you the most enjoyment.

[GASSERMAN]

It all depends on what kind of woods riding your going to be doing, is it all tight gnarly single track?, is it just nice fun fast single track? or a good mix of everything?

I have a 450, and a 250f, and a 300 smoker, and all of them work just fine for all the riding we do here, but when we ride the really nasty stuff the thumpers have a tendency to run hot if your not careful, were as the smoker doesn't, it's pretty hard to get the 300 steaming.

My 300 isn't a light switch either, like some say they are, just not true, it's the smoothest motor of all the bikes i have, with alot of lowend grunt, i think equal to my 450, and will go way farther on a tank of fuel than the 450, but not as far as my 250f, with the same size tank.

But you really need to find some people that have some different bikes you could ride to see what you like.

I do have one friend that rides a kx450f, he seems to like it well enough, but the fuel range is the worst i have seen on any bike.

And the ktm's have an adjustable power valve, so you can taylor the power to what you like.

I like all three of my bikes, so much that i have a hard time deciding which one i want to ride all the time.

[supervokes]

I like all three of my bikes, so much that i have a hard time deciding which one i want to ride all the time.

3 bikes !!!

You need to let us all in on the SECRET of how to convince your wife you need 3 bikes ?

[GASSERMAN]

3 bikes !!!

You need to let us all in on the SECRET of how to convince your wife you need 3 bikes ?

It makes life real hard sometimes!!!!

But she is a good women:ride:

[MXP553]

Hey..Supervokes and I agree!!!! I am trying to get her to let me get a KDX200 for the woods....So far..NO luck! I love the little KDX's and our super tight slimy, rutted, root infested short run hill climbs, 5mph trails..if that what you want to call them...our Trails will have most four strokes boiling over. My MX suspension does NOT work offroad either ..here! Out in the Rocky Mountains it was not such a problem..the deep whoops made the stiff valving work out..Not back here in Indiana!

So what was the secret to the wifey thing?

[GASSERMAN]

Well, it goes like this, I said "if i can have a couple new bikes, you can have new implants", And viola, i got new bikes, See, it's a win win(but dont tell her that)

[shrubitup]

I weigh 250 when I am in shape. I am 6`2" tall. I can weigh 270 sometimes which is 120 kg. I have a 07 YZ250 all wooded up and it has ALL the low end power/snap I could ever need. Get a triple clamp that moves the bars fwd as well as risers and it will fit good. You can also lower the footpegs cheaply too.

IMO they make a great woods bike. I:ve ridden KTM XCs and the motors are too weak for my fat

[RhinofromWA]

Not sure how heavy you are in lbs but I am HUGE and love my RM250.

It has a flywheel wieght, big tank, FMF Fatty pipe and TurbineCoreII S/A Skid plate....everything else is either stock or not performance related personalization items.