09 KTM 530 - 1800 miles/54hrs and my rings are shot!

Bike is a 2010 vin, 2009 bike (redbull graphics). Bought new, maintained at a very high level. No competition use, pure play bike that has lived an easy life, probably as easy as any 530 will live.

Recently my bike has gotten where it won't start with the electric start when cold, and only about 50% of the time when it is hot. I replaced the battery with a 5ah Turntech unit without any difference. Valves are right at the bottom spec and haven't moved since I purchased the bike. I really don't think the torque limiter is slipping as the bike cranks over what seems to be plenty fast.

My oil consumption has also gone up, This bike has always used oil since new (it has been desmoged, re-jetted, vent is still hooked to the carb), but has been getting worse. Last weekend we went for a 60 mile dual sport loop, at a pretty relaxed pace. Started with the sight glass full, ended with the sight glass 1/4 full.

The bike is out of waranty now but I called the dealer that I purchased it from and explained whats going on. He had me bring in the bike and took a look at it, verified it wouldn't start with the electric start but would with the kick. He then called KTM and talked to them about it....conclusion?

KTM/local shop feels that its the rings and they are going to warranty both parts and labor to pull the top end apart and install the updated 2010 rings in the bike...Sweeeet!

From recent threads that I've read here and on thumpertalk I also mentioned for them to make sure and check for improperly sealed intake seals. I really hate having a bike this new pulled down but I have to give credit for KTM stepping up to the plate and authorizing the work under warantee.

I'll post up an update when I find out more info after they get it pulled down.

Hodakaguy

Edited by Hodakaguy

Thats great that they will warranty it and they should. 09 400 with 80 hrs and no valve adjustments need thus far the oil is a small issue 50- 100 cc every 15- 20 hrs but not consistent. I think it hides the oil some times. I can never get .63 QT back in after an oil change.

Some 530s came from the factory with the wrong ring end gap which sounds like yours did and should be covered under warrenty. Its not common I have only have one come thru the shop.

Thats great that they will warranty it and they should. 09 400 with 80 hrs and no valve adjustments need thus far the oil is a small issue 50- 100 cc every 15- 20 hrs but not consistent. I think it hides the oil some times. I can never get .63 QT back in after an oil change.

You too? Oil use on my bike varies from oil change to oil change...driving me nuts. One minute sight glass 2/3 up from bottom and the next, on the bottom 1/3...uggh...

Going to put that oil block-off kit in from blais racing and see what happens.

funny how the missing oil thing happens? Some rides my 08 uses not a drop but the last ride it went down to bottom of sight glass. It changes everytime but it is not burning or transfering oil....yet

Bike is a 2010 vin, 2009 bike (redbull graphics). Bought new, maintained at a very high level. No competition use, pure play bike that has lived an easy life, probably as easy as any 530 will live.

Recently my bike has gotten where it won't start with the electric start when cold, and only about 50% of the time when it is hot. I replaced the battery with a 5ah Turntech unit without any difference. Valves are right at the bottom spec and haven't moved since I purchased the bike. I really don't think the torque limiter is slipping as the bike cranks over what seems to be plenty fast.

My oil consumption has also gone up, This bike has always used oil since new (it has been desmoged, re-jetted, vent is still hooked to the carb), but has been getting worse. Last weekend we went for a 60 mile dual sport loop, at a pretty relaxed pace. Started with the sight glass full, ended with the sight glass 1/4 full.

The bike is out of waranty now but I called the dealer that I purchased it from and explained whats going on. He had me bring in the bike and took a look at it, verified it wouldn't start with the electric start but would with the kick. He then called KTM and talked to them about it....conclusion?

KTM/local shop feels that its the rings and they are going to warranty both parts and labor to pull the top end apart and install the updated 2010 rings in the bike...Sweeeet!

From recent threads that I've read here and on thumpertalk I also mentioned for them to make sure and check for improperly sealed intake seals. I really hate having a bike this new pulled down but I have to give credit for KTM stepping up to the plate and authorizing the work under warantee.

I'll post up an update when I find out more info after they get it pulled down.

Hodakaguy

Any update on this Hodakaguy? :banana:

I ran into this recently. I hope this isn't too much of a bummer to link you to since your bike is new but it was a surprise to me to see this company provide this service.

http://www.dirttricks.com/rfs_in_new_frame.htm

A friend of mine just bought an 08 ktm 450 4t. I just hope he (and you) don't have any more problems with their bike. I haven't heard anyone else have problems like this.

what a stupid ai day why put a older engine in an newer bike

rfs engine swap is a needless concept.

ktm will fix your problem. props to them for stepping up.

i had the oil level prob, but it has setled down since they changed out the crank seal. mine was pushing from engine to trans.

when you check engine oil let it sit over night on the side stand, then put it on a bike stand straight up and let it sit for a while then check the oil it will help with a more accurate reading....not sure why but it does.

the xc4 motor is a great engine it just needs a few tweeks to fix the new engine glitches.

if you have been around a while with ktms you WILL remeber the rfs motor has had its share of teething problems as well.

what a stupid ai day why put a older engine in an newer bike

Hopefully there is an easier fix here in this case but putting an older engine in a newer bike isn't anything necessarily bad. I wouldn't mind a bike like this:

http://www.servicehonda.com/2010-models/honda/elsinore-replica

For this thread going to extreme measures isn't one that any of us would like to go if in this situation. ..just saw the reference to bikes the same general oil consumption situation etc.

UPDATE: KTM installed new rings and new valve guide seals in my 530, the old parts looked new and were all within specs...hmmm. I've only got about 100 miles on the new top end now, running great and so far oil consumption is looking like its better but still a little early to tell for sure. I'll post up again soon after I get some hrs on it and let everyone know how its going.

On a side note my starting issue is still there, only starts with the electric start once in a while. A couple nights ago I pulled off the clutch cover and removed/tightened the torque limiter. Just got my new gaskets in last night So I'll re-assemble today, take another ride this weekend and see if anything changed. I'll post up what I find.

As far as the old engine...I'll keep the 530 in there, I really like the new engine, valves stay in adjustment, fast to check, once I get it all sorted it will be sweet :banana:

Thanks

Hodakaguy

I think some oil consumption is due to heat rpm and a small oil capacity.

some where in that is the answer.

Took the bike out for a 60 mile ride today, E-start worked every time :thumbsup: removing the torque limiter and tightening it 1/2-3/4 turn did the trick. The bike will even start in gear now, it never would do that since new. Would have been a free fix but I did replace the clutch cover gasket and the lock washer on the clutch hub, so it took $23 to get it fixed.

I'll post up again after I get some hrs on the bike and let everyone know how the oil consumption is doing.

Hodakgauy

What excatly is a torque limiter? My friends ktm 530 08 wont start with the button either....

It basically acts like a one way clutch driven off the electric starter. It sits behind the clutch basket, right where the red arrow is. (I didn't get a picture if it installed in the bike :thumbsup:).

IMG_0320.jpg

Hodakaguy

Took the bike out for a 60 mile ride today, E-start worked every time :thumbsup: removing the torque limiter and tightening it 1/2-3/4 turn did the trick. The bike will even start in gear now, it never would do that since new. Would have been a free fix but I did replace the clutch cover gasket and the lock washer on the clutch hub, so it took $23 to get it fixed.

I'll post up again after I get some hrs on the bike and let everyone know how the oil consumption is doing.

Hodakgauy

Where did you get the 'idea' about the torque limiter 'adjustment'? Are they set 'wrong' from the factory? I'd be a little worried about 'kick-back'. I believe when the 450x's first came out some would endup breaking the kick-starter gear/case area due to, too much kick-back.

Where did you get the 'idea' about the torque limiter 'adjustment'? Are they set 'wrong' from the factory? I'd be a little worried about 'kick-back'. I believe when the 450x's first came out some would endup breaking the kick-starter gear/case area due to, too much kick-back.

I was going to just order a new Torque Limiter but I read on a couple forums where people had good luck with just tightening them up a bit, figured I would give that a try before buying a new assy.

I think my original limiter was either "miss adjusted" or defective from the factory since my bike would never start in gear since new and finally started failing at only 50hrs. (hardly should be worn out at that point). Looking at the picture above the kick start setup on the 530 is out of the loop completely from the torque converter and electric starter assy, leaving only the Starter and the Torque limiter in that circuit. I would like to see how it was assembled from the factory and how it was "set". KTM says they are "Non--Adjustable" but that's a comment that I would expect from a company wanting to sell new units, fact is if you "adjust" it it works again as is.

The only way that something could possibly get damaged from what I can see is if the engine is locked up solid and you try to start it, or maybe you try to start it in gear while holding the brakes ect.....But even then I would think the starter would just lock up before it would rip teeth off the gears ect, it's already engaged and you wouldn't get a slamming of the starter or teeth as it engages like a starter on a car that has a bendix ect.

If you turn the outer "large" gear on the limiter it will turn the small inner gear along with it and transfer the power of the E-Starter to the engine, if you grab the clutch basket and turn it the small gear on the back of the limiter will turn but no power gets transmitted back to the large gear that is engaging the E-start. I did this test after I "adjusted" the limiter and it was working fine.

At this point I can't see anything that makes me think I'm taking any undo risk by adjusting the limiter or anything that would make me want to open it back up and replace the Torque Limiter.

Hodakaguy

Edited by Hodakaguy

did your starter sound like it was still turning over though kind of a constant whine sound no grinding

i think the torque limiter may be my problem as well i have checked all switches,relay and wiring and battery and still can not find the problem

I was going to just order a new Torque Limiter but I read on a couple forums where people had good luck with just tightening them up a bit, figured I would give that a try before buying a new assy.

I think my original limiter was either "miss adjusted" or defective from the factory since my bike would never start in gear since new and finally started failing at only 50hrs. (hardly should be worn out at that point). Looking at the picture above the kick start setup on the 530 is out of the loop completely from the torque converter and electric starter assy, leaving only the Starter and the Torque limiter in that circuit. I would like to see how it was assembled from the factory and how it was "set". KTM says they are "Non--Adjustable" but that's a comment that I would expect from a company wanting to sell new units, fact is if you "adjust" it it works again as is.

The only way that something could possibly get damaged from what I can see is if the engine is locked up solid and you try to start it, or maybe you try to start it in gear while holding the brakes ect.....But even then I would think the starter would just lock up before it would rip teeth off the gears ect, it's already engaged and you wouldn't get a slamming of the starter or teeth as it engages like a starter on a car that has a bendix ect.

If you turn the outer "large" gear on the limiter it will turn the small inner gear along with it and transfer the power of the E-Starter to the engine, if you grab the clutch basket and turn it the small gear on the back of the limiter will turn but no power gets transmitted back to the large gear that is engaging the E-start. I did this test after I "adjusted" the limiter and it was working fine.

At this point I can't see anything that makes me think I'm taking any undo risk by adjusting the limiter or anything that would make me want to open it back up and replace the Torque Limiter.

Hodakaguy

I have an 08 450 and when i bought it new it keep eating up tourque limitaors.I had 2 replaced under warrenty,dealer couldnt figure out what keep causing it to go out.Ktm told them to replace another one way gear that was in the case.After all that it was fixed.

Now iam having trouble again same symptoms you are having.I have tried everything checked valves,cleaned carb,new plug.Anyways i thought it might be the tou.lim. but when it screwed up before it was even hard to start with kicker.Now this time it fires up with one kick.It has good compresion doesnt use anymore oil than did from day one.

Would yours fire up with kicker?And is it still doing ok?I need some input on what to do with mine its driven me crazzy.

Also how did you adjust it on yours might give it a try

Edited by ktm450guy

Just wanted to get this thread going again because i had some questions on my last post.Iam still having starting issue with mine and was wondering if the tourque limiter adjustment is still working for you.

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