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This fuel in engine oil common on the 09-model?

By DrScandinavia,
in CRF450R/RS/RWE & RX

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DrScandinavia

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Check your injector, the pinacle is not sealing off and letting fuel drip past the tip of the injector, into the intake, into the cylinder, then past the rings and into the crankcase and mixing with the oil.

A bit misleading since I haven't bought the bike just yet, I'm in consideration faze still and wondering if this is something that will happen to me, and if it will happen, is it solvable rather easy?:ride:

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DrScandinavia

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Check your injector, the pinacle is not sealing off and letting fuel drip past the tip of the injector, into the intake, into the cylinder, then past the rings and into the crankcase and mixing with the oil.

This what a guy told me at Vital:

"whiteboy843 wrote: im getting gas in the oil at 19 hours on my 2010 250. not sure what to do. my buddy has an 09 450 that had the same problem.

new top end and injector didnt solve anything.

i love my bike. its the best thing ever. but this is a really serious issue that has me worried.":foul:

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Grand Master

MELK-MAN

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If the injector is leaking with the engine shut off, you should be able to remove it from its mounting with the fuel line connected, and watch the tip for leakage. Another possibility is the bike is running too rich.

You could check to see if the injector is leaking, but it would need to be under pressure (40psi or so) otherwise you will likely not see it leak. The fuel line pressure disapates slowly after the fuel pump shuts off. No pressure in the line.. it is unlikely you will see fuel dripping even if the injector does have a problem. (pintle.. not pinacle:ride:) I doubt these injectors have a pintle that comes out of the bottom anyway. Can someone post a pic of the injector? Almost every Kehien or Denso injector on every Japanese street bike has small tiny holes at the outlet of the injector, not a pintle that protrudes.

This injector would not have a pintle protruding from the bottom.. it is a typical top feed Denso injector from it's design common on many later model street bikes. As there is not a large fuel rail holding multiple injectors, it is possible to check if it leaks and prime the fuel pump with it off the bike (im guessing but it looks like it can be done. )

http://www.mrcycles.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=849041&category=Motorcycles&make=Honda&year=2009&fveh=22936

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Grand Master

WALKINGWOUNDED

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Sorry for using the word pinacle, it was the first thing that came to mind. Although the residual pressure bleeds off when the engine/fuel pump is off, the injector can still leak without the fuel pump running because the fuel tank is above the injector and gravity is constantly feeding the injector. I see injectors leak down in the automotive world all the time, but they only leak while there is resiudall pressure from the fuel pump. The fuel tanks are usually at the same level or lower than the injector rail. I wonder if he had his ecu remapped too rich?

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Grand Master

MELK-MAN

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Sorry for using the word pinacle, it was the first thing that came to mind. Although the residual pressure bleeds off when the engine/fuel pump is off, the injector can still leak without the fuel pump running because the fuel tank is above the injector and gravity is constantly feeding the injector. I see injectors leak down in the automotive world all the time, but they only leak while there is resiudall pressure from the fuel pump. The fuel tanks are usually at the same level or lower than the injector rail. I wonder if he had his ecu remapped too rich?

no problem buddy. :ride: Most would never catch it but as i have a fuel injector diagnosis and cleaning company it jumped right out at me.. LOL.

If an injector is leaking from just the gravity pressure of fuel in the tank, there is seriously something wrong with that injector. I hope they get that issue fixed soon.

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racerx_217

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My brand new one has about a hour and half on it. I knew of the problem when i bought it. According to my dealer all of the 09's he sold have the problem. He is a small dealership and has only sold 10 including mine. But regardless they all have the problem and Honda does not have a fix, the 2010 450 and new 250 do the same thing. The problem is worse in the cold. I ride mine on the ice and am having to change the engine side oil every ride. Oh well i would say but one if your thinking of getting one, they are cheap as hell right now i got mine for 5600. Just keep the oil fresh. Other than that i don't know what to tell you and either does honda.

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The Captain

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You guys that state you have gas in the oil, are you seeing an increase in volume or are you just smelling gas?

I change my oil every 4 hrs. per the meter (synthetic) and have never seen an increase in volume, 100 hrs. on the clock btw. I will say that it does smell of gas and loses it's viscosity, but this is normal.

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mxjunkie80

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Less than two hours on mine. Eddie remap with Yosh pipe. Rode for 20 Min yesterday and the engine oil was full to the top. Putting a new injector in today. If this doesn't fix it I am taking the POS back to the shop I bought it from.

Let us know how it goes please?

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Grand Master

WALKINGWOUNDED

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What is the possibility of just poor ring sealing on some models. Although you would think that if it was a ring problem, it would effect all the 09's if the production is consistent, good or bad.

Which brings me back to the Total Seal ring company. Regardless if there is a problem with the oe rings or not, I think it would be beneficial to run them. It would help reduce normal blowby which would help keep the oil cleaner and may increase with the h/p numbers. Just a thought.

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DrScandinavia

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What is the possibility of just poor ring sealing on some models. Although you would think that if it was a ring problem, it would effect all the 09's if the production is consistent, good or bad.

Which brings me back to the Total Seal ring company. Regardless if there is a problem with the oe rings or not, I think it would be beneficial to run them. It would help reduce normal blowby which would help keep the oil cleaner and may increase with the h/p numbers. Just a thought.

Not a stupid thought at all? This crap is making me frustrated. So I have contacted Honda at this random mail address (a bit naive) where I demand an answer where a future solution is suggested or I threathen to change brand and get a feeling others might follow etc? They will probably ignore me, but if I get an reply I will forward it...

Seriously, this is causing me to consider a YZF250 2010 with carb. I newer thought I would ditch Honda...:ride:

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The Captain

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Seriously, this is causing me to consider a YZF250 2010 with carb. I newer thought I would ditch Honda...:ride:

Step back from the keyboard, and take a breath.

Anybody having this issues represent .02% of all 09's sold (just a guess, lol).

This is not a widespread issue.

This is one of those things that if it were 1993 and nobody was online you'd buy one and never know any different.:ride:

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DrScandinavia

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Step back from the keyboard, and take a breath.

Anybody having this issues represent .02% of all 09's sold (just a guess, lol).

This is not a widespread issue.

This is one of those things that if it were 1993 and nobody was online you'd buy one and never know any different.:ride:

Maybe only a filthy few, but then logic says this also would be easily fixed/explained then?:ride:

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