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Starting Trouble After Winter Storage

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So I put my 02 450 away around october and didnt really go through a winterizing process considering it stays in a heated garage over winter. Even when the heat is running I would say it doesnt get below 45 degrees in the garage. Anyway thought I would get ready for spring and changed the oil in both sides and when I went to start it so I could continue the process, it would not start. As far as before winter, I had gotten it just earlier in the summer so I was still getting down the starting process depending on the temp outside, but saying it was a prime day (75 degrees or so) it would normally start on 4-5 kicks. Once it was hot however if I rode up somewhere and killed it to avoid the Hell-like heat that thing creates sitting and idling, I couldnt hardly start it to save my life. Give it minute or so and pull the hot start and bam starts up first kick. Getting back to my question, why the hell wont it start now? Granted its only 35 outside, and she always has been quite the cold lady to start. I'm going to check my plug and I guess rip the carb off and clean it. It is running a 13:5:1 piston on premium gas, so is it so finicky that gas from October won't cut it? Also considering my high comp piston, exhaust etc. what should my jetting be? I was thinking my pilot might be a little out of whack too. Anyway any help would be appreciated.

P1010485.jpg

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I would put fresh gas in it.

new spark plug, and since youve got the gas tank off.. its an 02, old bike, lots of hours, you didnt mention anything about a new top end/head so you may as well pop the cylinder head cover off and check your intakes clearance, exhaust clearances, and decompression clearances just for the hell of it since you already half ways there.

after that it should start unless your carb is all plugged up, which I doubt, but anythings possible. I wish I could help you with jetting but thats my weak point.. I find it very confusing :thumbsup:

good luck, I know how frustrating it can be when these damn crfs wont start, I was just there yesterday!! kinda wish we had an electric start on the Rs but oh well..

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Thanks. Yea for sure, I was considering trading up for a 450x soon since I dont race. Also the top end was new last spring when I got it. Or so the guy says that I bought it from, also my service manual does a fantastic job of telling me how to check valve clearance, "see qualified Honda service professional":bonk:

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Thanks. Yea for sure, I was considering trading up for a 450x soon since I dont race. Also the top end was new last spring when I got it. Or so the guy says that I bought it from, also my service manual does a fantastic job of telling me how to check valve clearance, "see qualified Honda service professional":bonk:

lol thats ridiculous how it says that.

do you know how to check valve clearance? intakes are very easy to check and usually the main problem as to why a crf wont start, I would recommend starting there just for the hell of it if you dont mind taking the seat and gas tank off... ive done it so many times I can take the bike apart, check intakes, and have it back together in like 20 minutes.

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If it ran well when you put it up, I would focus on the pilot jet. Make sure it isn't varnished up and is clear. There's no reason to jack with the rest of the carb at this point because you are more likely to get something else out of wack and not solve the original issue. While you are at it, dump the old fuel in your car and fill it with fresh gas.

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i second the valve check and fresh gas .

if you do open the carb up take the extra 5 mins to lube all your cables.

before i rebuilt mine ,every time it was hard to start ,it was from the valves going out .

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I'm not really familiar with the valve clearance check, but I'll go ahead and search it on the forum. I'm sure there's probably a pretty comprehensive thread on it, also the reason I mentioned jetting is because it also had trouble idling from time to time. I would start it on choke and it would idle fine but after I clicked the choke off it would idle normally for a minute then I would have to give it little blips of throttle to keep it going. I monkeyed with the idle screw a few times and it was definitely idling too high when I bumped it up. People around me in the parking lot for the dunes probably thought I was a jackass blipping my throttle every 3-4 seconds. As a side note, it ran fine anywhere above idle like as soon as I was moving, no pops or backfires at all.

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I had the same problem with my 04..

here's what to do..

remove the shrouds/tank/air filter/side covers/seat/air filter

(drain the tank and clean the air filter)

remove the hose from the airbox just behind the carb

thoroughly clean the exterior of the carb to prevent dirt from entering the cylinder

loosen the intake boots on both sides of the carb

make sure you note the routing of the carb's hoses for reinstallation

turn the front wheel all the way to the right (throttle cable slack) and remove the throttle cables

remove the hot start cable from your bars

depending on the type of exhaust you have, you'll want to remove the last section including the muffler.

remove the subframe being careful - you'll be pulling the boot off of the rear of the carb during this step

remove the top mounting bolt from the rear shock. lean and tie the shock back

disconnect the throttle position sensor wire and slowly work the carb off of the intake, then remove it from the bike

remove the float bowl, and the small panel at the very top of the carb.

clean the float bowl with carb cleaner, and squirt the cleaner into all the jets, holes, crevces

blow the carb out with compressed air, scrub where needed.

this should be enough to clear your issues up..

just be sure to use fresh gas, and a clean airfilter

:thumbsup:

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My bike wont start either. This weekend im gunna clean the carb real good, check the valves (never done it before, should be fun), and add fresh gas. Hopefully ill have time to clean some crap in the garage so ill have room to work on my bike. Keep us posted on how it goes for ya since im in the same boat.....except mine used to pop and backfire sometimes (jetting?)

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My bike wont start either. This weekend im gunna clean the carb real good, check the valves (never done it before, should be fun), and add fresh gas. Hopefully ill have time to clean some crap in the garage so ill have room to work on my bike. Keep us posted on how it goes for ya since im in the same boat.....except mine used to pop and backfire sometimes (jetting?)

valves are very simple.

take seat and tank off.

take spark plug off.

take cylinder head cover off. thats it for engine work.

then you take that timing hole cover off on the right side crankcase, by the rear brake lever/water pump. Its a 8mm socket. if you look closely on the inside, rotate the engine slowly and you will see a mark on that shaft. line it up with the triangle on the cover to find TDC (top dead center of the piston in the cylinder). heres a pic of what youre looking for: http://i47.tinypic.com/35jwkys.jpg

OR another way to find TDC is to remove the spark plug and insert a straw or 8 inch zip tie into the spark plug hole so it sits on your piston, rotate the engine over and watch for when the straw/zip tie is at its higest point, very easy to find.

at this point, its nice to take note of your cam lobes... they will be pointing upwards and back. this isnt necessarily important.

once youre at TDC, you just stick your feeler guages under each of the cam intake lobes and record the clearance. hopefully its within spec but theyre probably not if your bike wont start, its usually the intakes :thumbsup:

if you have to re shim the intakes, thats a whole other process. its a tad more complicated than finding the clearance as youre screwing with your timing, but its still very easy and im willing to help and provide pics if you need.

good luck!

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My money is on the pilot jet. The fuel these days has so many additives that when it sits it gets nasty in the bowl. (so yeah, drain the tank and replace) Before you get carried away with the subframe and all, you should be able to just loosen the clamps on both sides of the carb, tilt it to make taking off the bowl easier, and remove the bowl. Remove the pilot jet with a small flathead screwdriver and see if it's blocked. Even if you can see through it run a small wire through it from both directions. This will take you 20 minutes tops. I've had this problem numerous times and it's an easy fix. If this doesn't get, check the valves. Oh yeah, blow out p. jet hole and the main jet with compressed air while the bowl is off.

Jeff

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valves are very simple.

take seat and tank off.

take spark plug off.

take cylinder head cover off. thats it for engine work.

then you take that timing hole cover off on the right side crankcase, by the rear brake lever/water pump. Its a 8mm socket. if you look closely on the inside, rotate the engine slowly and you will see a mark on that shaft. line it up with the triangle on the cover to find TDC (top dead center of the piston in the cylinder). heres a pic of what youre looking for: http://i47.tinypic.com/35jwkys.jpg

OR another way to find TDC is to remove the spark plug and insert a straw or 8 inch zip tie into the spark plug hole so it sits on your piston, rotate the engine over and watch for when the straw/zip tie is at its higest point, very easy to find.

at this point, its nice to take note of your cam lobes... they will be pointing upwards and back. this isnt necessarily important.

once youre at TDC, you just stick your feeler guages under each of the cam intake lobes and record the clearance. hopefully its within spec but theyre probably not if your bike wont start, its usually the intakes :thumbsup:

if you have to re shim the intakes, thats a whole other process. its a tad more complicated than finding the clearance as youre screwing with your timing, but its still very easy and im willing to help and provide pics if you need.

good luck!

-Santan, thanks for the help. Unfortunately i didnt get a chance to work on the bike yet and its gunna have to wait until next weekend. You'll probably be getting a PM from me at some point.

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-Santan, thanks for the help. Unfortunately i didnt get a chance to work on the bike yet and its gunna have to wait until next weekend. You'll probably be getting a PM from me at some point.

not a problem. Im more than happy to help. Ive done it so many times its become as easy as an oil change for me :thumbsup:

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Thanks guys, same here I was meaning to get at it this weekend and didnt get a chance to get it out and mess with it. I'll break into this coming weekend and hopefully it'll just be some carb nastiness and not have to shim the intakes but I might as well check while I have the tank off anyway.

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UGH, VALVES! So yea I took the tank off and low and behold my smallest feeler gauge (.12mm) would not make it's way under the cam lobes...arg. Now I have to get another set of feeler gauges tomorrow and see how far out of spec they are. I really don't look forward to having to shim my valves after only owning the bike for 8 engine hours. That is if they werent out of spec when I bought it.

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That is if they werent out of spec when I bought it.

yeah they probably were, or very close to being to. thats probably why he sold it. and I dont know if youre a noob or not (no offense) but sometimes they can be pretty hard on bikes/valves when they first buy them.

its super important to keep the airfilter clean, and to properly oil it afterwards. I know a kid that didnt oil his filter once he was done cleaning it.. rode it, sucked up dirt and ruined his wholeeee engine. crank, piston, cylinder, valves, head, all were garbage. 10 cents of air filter oil that he didnt know to use cost him about 2-3000$. he sold his 07 250f for with a blown engine for 600$. could have sold it a week before for 5000$...

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Yea luckily I have been riding for a while and have been pretty dilligent about cleaning and oiling air filters regularly, I just hadn't owned this bike long. Luckily it turns out this shim business looks like it's pretty easy, now I just need a shim kit. Arg Hotcams here comes my 80 bucks (give or take)

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Yea luckily I have been riding for a while and have been pretty dilligent about cleaning and oiling air filters regularly, I just hadn't owned this bike long. Luckily it turns out this shim business looks like it's pretty easy, now I just need a shim kit. Arg Hotcams here comes my 80 bucks (give or take)

If you need to shim it because the valve clearance has closed up, the valve is worn out and needs to be replaced.

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If you need to shim it because the valve clearance has closed up, the valve is worn out and needs to be replaced.

thats true, but doesn't mean its totally done/out of life. he can shim it and ride it for another 20 or so hours.. assuming it hasnt been shimmed before.

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Yea that was my next question. I am by no means a noob to riding, but my previous rides have been considerably less maintenance, so when it comes to 450r maintenance and more specifically valves, I am a noob. So I was wondering how much life I could see out of these valves if I shim them considering I only put about 10 hours on the engine last summer?The shims on it are 155 if that means anything. Also are you saying the valves are bad because they are almost bottomed out clearance wise, that if I could've gotten a .10 or similar feeler gauge under there they would have been good to go?

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