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Hi all...Long time lurker, first time poster, and it's a good one. I've garnered alot of info from you all (thank you much), but I've come across an issue that has me not only stumped but totally disheartened. Okay here goes...I bought a 2003 XR650L last October off of an aquaintance from my old home town. The bike showed 17,600 miles on it but it was super clean. I mean, it could pass for a 1,000 miler, it's that nice. New tires and a new chain and sprockets said the owner and of course they looked new. I've been around the block a time or two, and did what I considered to be due diligence prior to purchase. After buying it, I rode the bike through December until the snow flew, and it was put away until this week. I'm talking no more than four hundred miles, tops. Here's where it gets goofy. I took it out today (second ride this year), and was winding up a dirt road, when I went to shift gears and it simply revved without putting down power. Thinking I missed a gear, I went for another one. Same thing. I for a second thought I'd broke a chain (Brand new?), and pulled to the side. Imagine my dismay when I found the countershaft sprocket had somehow came loose from the shaft, and was spinning free of the splines. Okay, I'll cut to the chase here: After bringing it home it the back of the truck, we found the countershaft itself was missing about 1/2 inch of splines in the middle of what's exposed. You could see that it had been worn down, and what I figure that's happening is, there's not enough splines to catch the cover plate that goes over the sprocket to keep it in place. Or, there was just enough when the previous owner put the new sprockets on, and hoped for the best. When I put minimal (and I mean MINIMAL) stress on it, it spun the last bit off and essentially stripped my countershaft. My first instinct is to call the P.O. and ask a few pointed questions. If he sold it to me knowing of this issue, I'm not sure I'd get a straight answer anyway. I'm really having a hard time believing he'd stick me like this, but anything's possible I guess. I know up front I have to split the cases to replace the shaft. My questions are these: Any idea money-wise if it goes to a shop for this? And secondly, what situation, in your opinion, would have to have occured to get that shaft in the condition I found it? I'm not sure I really wanna know, but it might shed some light on whether the P.O. would've sold the bike with such a glaring fault. Thanks in advance for your responses, Jim

Edited by hurricanejames

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I feel your pain. Here is the chronicle of my rebuild for the same reason. Link

Here is Rob's tale of his teardown (different reason, same process): Link

All in all it's not that bad of a deal. Tear into it (rebuild it faster!):banana:

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An inherrant common problem on the XRL when neglected. Fresh sprockets & chain & proper chain tension can keep this from occuring. Some have even bought bikes to find the sprocket welded to the shaft! I would really doubt the PO was not aware of this but?? Probably better done by a shop if you have a good one nearby, but not impossible to do yourself if you have the skills & tools.

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Some have even bought bikes to find the sprocket welded to the shaft!

That never happens! :banana::banghead::lol::lol:

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Thank you for your responses. I can't believe I'd never read of that being a problem on these bikes. Honestly, as nice as this bike is, I can't believe the P.O. let this get that bad. Usually, you can see signs of abuse/neglect, not so in this case. Ironically, I wasn't concerned about the mileage bacause he'd told me it was NEVER off-road...not once, and it looked it. He rode the bike sixty miles a day back and forth to work...all highway. I can't imagine ruining a hardened countershaft under those circumstances. The thread on your fix was much appreciated...It gives me an idea of what to expect. Truthfully though, I think this will wind up in the hands of a pro. Stay tuned...

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Even if the bike was well cared-for, keeping the chain too tight can diminish the countershaft's life. The slack should be set at least with the bike at full sag, not on the side stand with the suspension unloaded. Letting rust develop on the sprocket and shaft is also a suspected contributor to failure.

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OK, calmey downey Hurricane! You and I both know that buying a dual sport with 17 + grand is a crap shoot. Hopefully it is as the PO says and is a diamond in the rough. Like stated by WR and piggie this kinda stuff happens. I myself am always on the lookout for a killer deal. Guys like us get burned once in a while by shady sellers or plain unaware PO's. You are ahead of 90% of the population. You have found TT and a group of people who will help you through this painful process.

Yeah it sucks. Get it fixed and move on. I decided to buy new because I felt all of the used piggie sellers thought there XR's were worth way more than I did!

Don't worry you will find a killer deal on your next prelude or mustang or whatever. Keep posting the XR dudes will help.

BRP C

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Look at page 2-3 or this threadhttp://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=807091&page=2&highlight=xr650r+sprocket

This is exactyly why I posted what I did. Don't worry about any missalignment if you put it on the way I described, any that is there is miniscule and will not hurt anything further. You may be able to ride that otherwise pristine bike for a while if you do this, mabye never worry about it in the forseeable future(maybe).

That sprocket will contact otherwise new splines that the factory one never touched. Just my suggestion, it may work out for you.

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Wise words, BRP C...I hesitated pulling the trigger on this one because of the miles, until I went over it. Unfortunately, my fine toothed comb must be missing a few teeth...Short of dismantling it, I'm not sure how I'd have found this one. I'm gonna take all your advice, and just fix it. Even if I could prove he knew it, I wouldn't (and really couldn't) go after him anyway. It was way less than half of new, and I know from experience that you usually get what you pay for. Other than the countershaft issue, it's still a really nice bike.

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Just for clarity, it is indeed used turned around which goes on just fine. In the pics, you can notice it is rite against where the keeper plate goes on, the sprocket is pushed all the way as far as it will go, there is no slop/slack or ability to use shims or to put it on further it uses all off the splined part of the shaft up to the keeper and the keeper just barley has enough space to fit. I hope you can use this and it helps you out.

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Onederer...Let's see if I got this straight...You're running an R sprocket flipped over to pull fresh splines out of the case a bit? My problem as I see it is there aren't enough splines towards the end/middle of the shaft so I can put the plate on where it'd hold the sprocket on. Unless I'm missing something...

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There is no "pulling" more splined part out of the case, all the splined are is exposed already on the shaft, the R sprocket just uses all of them where the L sprocket is much thinner in that area.

A pic of the shaft on your bike would help me understand what you mean by no splines on the end. Are you saying the sprocket fell off the shaft completely, or it is just spinning on it?

There is only a few milimeters of splined shaft at the outside, then maybe 5mm grove(area that has no splines where the retainer plate goes, then the rest of the shaft inward is splined.

All the plate does is keep the sprocket from comeing off of the shaft, it doesn't keep it from spinning or aligned to much of any degree, there is very little stress on that plate. It keeps the sprocket from walking off the end of the shaft by simply alternating the open/closed spline pattern from the sprocket by just being designed a few degrees out of sync when bolted in place on the sprocket. If there are any raise splines on the end of the shaft, that is all that is required for the retaining plate to function. Basically the plates designed is not to engage the spline, just the oposite it is to prevent alignment of the splines in order to loosely keep its postion, the sprocket engages the splines, the plate just needs enough on the end to block the plate from moving outward.

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Okay, I gotcha now. I'm fairly illiterate when it goes to posting pics and such, but I think I can give you a good visual of the countershaft. If you look at it with the sprocket off, there are all the splines on the very outside of the shaft. They look fine. Then, where you say there is to be a groove, is an expanse of about an inch. This is where the sprocket was slipping at. I know from looking at my cousin's countershaft (we were riding together when this happened and he pulled his apart to see what we were looking for) that the groove is only supposed to be the width of the cover plate or so. This exceeded that by a good bit, with the inner splines worn down to their base. Then, closest to the case, the splines returned, with about 1/2 inch of good splines left. I'm giving approximate measurements because the bike's at my cousin's house, but you get the idea. Splines on the outside, splines on the inside, nothing in the middle. The questions are: Do you think from the description that this might be a viable alternative? Secondly, if you've done this to yours, are there any drawback or repercussions that you can see? Many, many thanks to all of you, and I'd be interested in your opinions of this possible fix.

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You may find that pulling the trigger yourself is the way to go after exploring the cost of having it done by a bike mechanic. The killer deal will quickly evaporate into the pockets of the mechanic. You could drop those pennies into other things like a cam, bigfin head, oil cooler... well, you get my drift.:lol:

After all you have all the arm chair quarterbacks and cheerleaders you'd ever need right here.:banana:

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That never happens! :banana::banghead::banana::lol:

I beg to differ, there is even a post her on TTwhere someone has pics of one welded!!:lol:

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Do you think from the description that this might be a viable alternative? Secondly, if you've done this to yours, are there any drawback or repercussions that you can see? Many, many thanks to all of you, and I'd be interested in your opinions of this possible fix.

I don't consider it a fix, more of a way to make it to a more timely repair.

Truthfully this is as far as I know a never before documented option, so you may be the first to show that is does indeed prolong the time until the ultimate repair, and may just come in handy for many more riders who need a little extra time to put the funds together for the eventual repair.

I use the R sprocket on my bike not because the splines are ruined but to prevent it from happening in the first place until the whole engine needs a rebuild(I don't like the idea of dismantiling a perfectly good engine to change a part that should outlast the engine). I don't see any significant problems coming from it, and in a case like yours, the shaft already needs replaced, so it definatley is not goin to hurt the shaft.

Also, since you just got the bike, I think if you could spend the money on a sprocket that will allow you to ride the bike for quite a time you will have enough time to know if there is anything else the bike is gonna require before you drop hundreds more into a repair not knowing more about the bike would be to your advantage in avoiding more cost and headache after a already costly repair.

Just by memory, the amount of spline on the inside that the stock sprocket doesn't use is just about the amount the stock sprocket uses anyway, so basically you have the same amount of new spline left to use if you use a sprocket the takes it all up. So, yes, with that reasoning I think it will work for you. If it works better than expected, SupeR, you can document it and it will help people, and that is what people are looking for on here.

I have nearly 40,000 miles on my XRL, I didn't put that many miles on my bike by doing bad wrenching on it or modifications I thought would harm it. I wouldn't be running the R sprocket if I thought it would cause problems elsewhere.

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Again, many thanks for your time. I'm inclined to give this a shot with the idea that if it doesn't work, I'm not any worse off than I was to start with. I'll let you know what I wind up with when I get there.

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I beg to differ, there is even a post her on TTwhere someone has pics of one welded!!:banana:

Uh... yea... I took the picture :lol:

PA090156.jpg

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Onederer,

I am trying to visualize your fix... It seems that forcing the sprocket to one side or another on the countershaft is going to dork up your chainline to the rear sprocket. I guess if it does and causes a slight increase in chain wear, it is still cheaper than a full teardown.

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