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steering tube problems

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was servicing the steering stem bearings when i noticed the outer race of the bottom bearing is loose. it is supposed to be a press fit, but it easily came out, only held in by the paint. it has been spinning in the steering tube and has "wallowed" it out silghtly. by slightly i mean maybe a few thousands of an inch, still ridable but will only get worse and i can only imagine how it acts as a hammer on the tube when im going over whoops or at the track. so next to getting a new frame (not really an option as its a hybrid and i dont really have the time or equipment to make a new hybrid frame, nor do i want to) anyone have any ideas? i have 2, but im not sure how etiher would work

1.get a new bearing, clean the race and steering tube till they are sterile, and use some of this stuff or something like it. still need to call loctite to see what they recmomend

http://www.henkelna.com/cps/rde/xchg/henkel_us/hs.xsl/product-search-1554.htm?iname=Loctite%C2%AE+638%E2%84%A2+Retaining+Compound&countryCode=us&BU=industrial&parentredDotUID=productfinder&redDotUID=0000000I04&param1=technical

2. get a slightly undersized bearing (the outer race is 55mm, so i would get a 52-53mm with the rest of the bearing dimensions being the same) and make a collar that is 58.xxmm od and 52-53 id to be a "bearing holder/gap filler thing". i have a lathe arriving here wed and i can make that piece.

this suks, i hate issues like this that should never happen, can destroy a bike and cant really be fixed. i replaced the bearings not too long ago, so im glad i caught it early. i remember the bottom race going in easily, but nothing to be overly concerned about, or so i thought. maybe the original owner that ebeck got this frame from didnt maintain his shit and rode it around will a loose stem or something. any insight wanted.

Edited by hi_im_sean

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just went out and looked and the bore closer. the amount of wear is very minimal, maybe 1 or 2 thousandths of an inch. i cant even feel the ridge with my nail. the loctite will fill gaps up to 10 thou, and is rated at just under 4000psi for steel application. i would apply it and put the stem back together dry to load it and locate the race, let it dry overnight come back and grease and ride until the wheel falls off?

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Well, that sucks.

I have not used it, but I have bought 638 to use on a similar application.

One small concern that pops into my mind is getting the race back out in the future.

If it is only a couple of thousandths, then that makes me wonder if there was paint on it in stock condition. As the paint would have been about that thick, maybe that would have taken up the distance??

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I've used Locktite sleeve retainer for bushings on excavating equipment. I never removed one after it was glued in place but I assume you would have to clean the bore with sandpaper or something. You could "shrink" the bore using a center punch.

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Ever heard of a Speedi Sleeve?

See if you can buy a race a little more undersized and use one of these.

I think .002 is too thin to just use one out right, but all the bearingshops in town are usually super helpful when it comes to looking for something like this.

I also have a Timken bearing book if you want borrow it.

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From a purely selfish perspective I suggest you glob some Loctite in there and forget about it. We have a race coming up… 👍 You wanna borrow my ‘Onder? A RED 4-stroke! Eeeeewww! 🤣 No that is too mean. We can tag team the pumpkin.

How to fix it right? Buy two oversize bearings & bore the frame. One of our tool makers at work that can do line bore type work at home. I’ll get a price if interested. For those of you wondering…He is not an engine builder.

I have no experience with Speedi Sleeve ARZ mentions. Looks like the business though.

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I've used Locktite sleeve retainer for bushings on excavating equipment. I never removed one after it was glued in place but I assume you would have to clean the bore with sandpaper or something. You could "shrink" the bore using a center punch.

yea thats what i meant by sterile, it wouldnt come back out. hopefully anyway.

i think im going to try the loctite shit first as its the easiest. do a couple motos and take it apart to see if the shock loads fracture the stuff. if all is good then great, ill just have to keep an eye on it and take real good care of my bottom bearing.

if that fails then i will make a "speedy sleeve" or but one if they are easy to get/cheap. thanks andy, wasnt aware that they repair shafts in industry, i thought they would replace em.

dave, i dont think there is enough material there to machine anything more than 1mm from the diameter, but if thats what it comes down to then that may be what i have to do. that would be last ditch effort though.

borrow the honda???? you trying to hurt me? your going to get kicked out of this forum 👍

thanks everyone.

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so that stuff works well jeekinz? what were the bushings for? shock load type stuff? buckets pivots or something

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so that stuff works well jeekinz? what were the bushings for? shock load type stuff? buckets pivots or something

Yeah, it works. Backhoes, excavators, bulldozers....you know, light duty stuff. lmao Sometimes (alot of times) the operators wouldn't grease the machines which led to pin & bushing failure on the working parts. Sometimes the pins would wear through the bushings or the bushings would spin in their respective bore. We had an arsenal of ways to fix these situations from overboring the actual part and turning custom bushings on the lathe, beating in some old feeler guage to take up space between the part and new bushing if it was egged, filling with weld, using that sleeve installer compound, yadda yadda yadda. A couple drops of that stuff and you'll be fine. If it's a "push fit" I think a couple dimples with a center punch would be good enough to make it back to press fit.

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Yeah, it works. Backhoes, excavators, bulldozers....you know, light duty stuff. lmao Sometimes (alot of times) the operators wouldn't grease the machines which led to pin & bushing failure on the working parts. Sometimes the pins would wear through the bushings or the bushings would spin in their respective bore. We had an arsenal of ways to fix these situations from overboring the actual part and turning custom bushings on the lathe, beating in some old feeler guage to take up space between the part and new bushing if it was egged, filling with weld, using that sleeve installer compound, yadda yadda yadda. A couple drops of that stuff and you'll be fine. If it's a "push fit" I think a couple dimples with a center punch would be good enough to make it back to press fit.

maybe a combination odfboth the sppoge and some dimples. but is is 1/4" wall high carbon or chrome moly or something tough. not sure how i would dimple it.

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no one in town had it. they all had the general purpose 609 hight temp 635 and whatever 640 is. had to order it through my favorite online gun place, will post up results.

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maybe a combination odfboth the sppoge and some dimples. but is is 1/4" wall high carbon or chrome moly or something tough. not sure how i would dimple it.

Dimple the frame, not the race.

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Have used Locktite 609 and 638 for similar applications as you. Works great!

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" think im going to try the loctite shit first as its the easiest. do a couple motos and take it apart to see if the shock loads fracture the stuff. if all is good then great, ill just have to keep an eye on it and take real good care of my bottom bearing. "

I think that'll be fine. You might use a center punch to dimple the pocket.

No problem getting that race out in the future - a little heat from a propane torch and the Loctite is gone.

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got the magic goo in today, cleaned it up with some 180 grit, followed by scotchbrite, brake clean and paper towels. glued em in. once i cleaned up the top bearing bore, it was loose too. not nearly as bad as the bottom one but loose none the less so i did both. it seems promising

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Weird.

Maybe the bearings are off? Any signs of wear in the bores?

in the bottom one yes, the race was spinning and you could tell. the top looks like it spun just the smallest amount. the bottom takes a lot more load, so im not sure if the top would have become like the bottom eventually, i didnt want to find out. when i say loose i mean not press fit anymore, still hard to get in, just dont have to use any tools, no cleanrance, the bottom one actually has clearance. im wondering if this frame was powder coated with the races left in it in the past, and they "flared" the frame with the heat

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Flared the frame with the heat of powdercoating? NO WAY. Or did you mean flared the frame from abuse then powdercoated afterward?

You couldn't find an outside race that was oversized?

Not on motorcycles but on other bores, I have had success putting a bead of weld on the outside of the race and it shrunk the dia. Not sure if you have enough material or if this would cause a stress riser at the end of the weld in the heat affected zone. I would have to see how much material there is on the head tube before I decided to go that route.

Crossing my fingers for you. Hope to see you on the trails soon.

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