Honda 06 450r Electric start.. Brass metal shavings in oil filter?

[Nizzlemac1414]

Bought it knowing the motor was messed up, but not knowing what exactly was the problem.. First thing i did was open the oilfilter oil, and Brass shavings or what looked like brass or gold shavings? Any clue as to what this is?? i didnt know if the rods had brass bushing in them? oil pump? not sure.. also if that is the case, would it be in the transmission or are these two totally different compartments? Im sorry if i seem to be bass ackwards on this.. as its my first go round on here.. Thank you in advance..

[ATC450R]

Sounds like the brass thruss washers on the side's of the lower connecting rod.

[reconranger]

Engine and transmission oil are seperated, so if it is in the oil filter, you can isolate the problem to the top end. (Another example of how it just makes common sense to seperate these two oils!)

[CQR]

Engine and transmission oil are seperated, so if it is in the oil filter, you can isolate the problem to the top end. (Another example of how it just makes common sense to seperate these two oils!)

So the crankshaft uses the trans oil, and the oil filter is only for the oil for the valve train? That doesn't sound real logical...

[T-Rex]

Its the crank bearing/rod bearing, very common on 450r's. Buy a new crank kit and have it installed.

[Nizzlemac1414]

Thanks for the replies.. So today i opened up the side cases a little to peak inside.. Found it all on the "stator side" on top of that i found chunks of what looked like rings? or so i thought.. The more i look at the chunks, a few are large enough to see that some of them have 90 degree bends in them? Clutch side had clean tranny oil, no chunks or shavings.. Will the gears have to be gone through? Just trying to get a clue.. again, thanks for your time.. Also, found some small shavings in the valve and cam area.. took spark plug out, shined light down on top of piston and found nothing as far as shavings go.. looked clean.. Thanks again

[T-Rex]

Its your crank!! Big end of the rod bearing is the look like rings....

[reconranger]

So the crankshaft uses the trans oil, and the oil filter is only for the oil for the valve train? That doesn't sound real logical...

No.....it's exactly like every 2-stroke trans out there! The trans has seperate oil of its own.....the crank and valve train use the "engine" oil, and

[reconranger]

Thanks for the replies.. So today i opened up the side cases a little to peak inside.. Found it all on the "stator side" on top of that i found chunks of what looked like rings? or so i thought.. The more i look at the chunks, a few are large enough to see that some of them have 90 degree bends in them? Clutch side had clean tranny oil, no chunks or shavings.. Will the gears have to be gone through? Just trying to get a clue.. again, thanks for your time.. Also, found some small shavings in the valve and cam area.. took spark plug out, shined light down on top of piston and found nothing as far as shavings go.. looked clean.. Thanks again

Should be fine, seeing your shavings are on the engine side only, not the trans side (wasted your time, looking at the clutch side). If you had shared engine and trans oil like CQR and every other 4-stroke quad on the planet, you wouldn't have a clue where the shavings were coming from, and you would have had to check out the trans as well (plus, those shavings would have floated around your trans and maybe damaged it!).

A few very early ones had a batch of bad crank bearings, but I think they had this well taken care of by 06. I am suspicious that folks don't put enough oil in initially after an oil change. I can put in almost a full quart, start it up and the oil level drops significantly. I think folks tend to initially under-fill it, and that leaves the crank high and dry on the initial startup......

[CQR]

No.....it's exactly like every 2-stroke trans out there! The trans has seperate oil of its own.....the crank and valve train use the "engine" oil, and

I thought your original post sounded odd. That makes more sense than just oiling for the top end.

Edited April 7, 2010 by CQR

[reconranger]

Pros and cons of seperated engine/trans oils:

http://www.thumperfaq.com/oil.htm

[T-Rex]

few very early ones had a batch of bad crank bearings, but I think they had this well taken care of by 06. I am suspicious that folks don't put enough oil in initially after an oil change. I can put in almost a full quart, start it up and the oil level drops significantly. I think folks tend to initially under-fill it, and that leaves the crank high and dry on the initial startup......

No Honda did not fix the issue, it is a case of incorrect rock wall hardness on the bearings for the rod/crank....Trust me its your crank, keep running it and it will lock up on you....

[T-Rex]

I own a 04 450r and had to replace two cranks (one OEM bought in 2009, the other Hot Rods) in it so far. All I use is Royal Purple Oil the best you can find and still the big rod end bearing goes bad.

[Nizzlemac1414]

Thanks for all the replies.. Goes to the motor builder tomorrow.. Just trying to get an idea as to what its gonna cost.. Next question.. are the 11.5 to 1 pistons worth the money? not really gonna go past that.. I probably shouldnt even put that in it being im still new to the quad scene.. I just had a 400ex with big bore and only had it for 2 months.. again thanks for the replies..

[T-Rex]

Adding little compression will help some. If you did the 11.5:1 and have the cylinder head ported (By someone who knows what they are doing) then you will notice a good gain....