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so if 4 strokes are so expensive...


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how come a brand new OEM honda cylinder for a 2005 crf450 is 240$, piston setup for my 450 is 120$ for everything.

and a brand new OEM honda cylinder for a 2002 cr250 is 400$, piston setup for the cr250 is 140$.

is the reason really that 4 strokes are more expensive is due to the valve/cam assembly? otherwise everything I can find at my "source" (which is cheapest I could find BTW.) is way cheaper for a newer 4 stroke than it is for an older smoker.

plus add the fact that a cr250 would need a rebuild every year or two at the most whereas my 450 only needs one every 2-4 years, AND is not that much more expensive?

cr250 full rebuild = 700-800$ every 2 years (thats being generous) so that costs 1500$ for 4 years.

crf450 full rebuild = 1500$ every 4 years... same price as the cr250 except you get a 4 stroke instead.. win-win situation.

so do people like 2 strokes because theyre "funner" to ride? or because theyre way "cheaper" and easier to maintain than a 4 stroke?

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I don't know where you got those top end prices but the last top end on my 06 yz125 was $88 shipped. That included piston, ring, clips, wrist bearing, wrist pin, gaskets, and a new needle jet..... And I priced out a yz250 at less than $100. All OEM PARTS

Sure in some case 4 strokes can be cheaper. Like my brother's 06 yz250f. 3 years of riding hard. Only thing brought on bike was tires, sprockets, chains and the usual maintance. NO rebuild still. Maybe hes just lucky or a good mechanic u decided.

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ive had to do a full topend on a yfz450 before and it hurt my pocket 1300$ for parts and that was browsing the internet countless hours finding the cheapest stuff i now ride a 2stroke and the maintenance has been pretty cheap im about due for a topend if cylinder is well as it should be ill be out around 150$ and some time

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Is this for racing or trail riding, in your opinion?

trail riding.

I don't think you need a full rebuild on a 2 stroke every year or two.. But a top end over sized piston + gasket set = $100-$200 + $40 bore fee = $140-$240 per top end rebuild..

yes, you have a good point, I forgot about being able to bore it ๐Ÿ‘

I don't know where you got those top end prices but the last top end on my 06 yz125 was $88 shipped. That included piston, ring, clips, wrist bearing, wrist pin, gaskets, and a new needle jet..... And I priced out a yz250 at less than $100. All OEM PARTS

Sure in some case 4 strokes can be cheaper. Like my brother yz250f. 3 years of riding hard. Only thing brought on bike was tires, sprockets, chains and the usual maintance. NO rebuild still. Maybe hes just lucky or a good mechanic u decided.

I got my parts from the cheapest place around, honda east toledo. TT store wants 510$ for a new one and local honda shop wants 540$. for some reason those 2002 cr250s arent cheap, I think it has something to do with the power valve assembly in it. I agree with you on the yz parts... theyre dirt cheap for some reason.

also, I was talking about not just a "refresh" but replacing everything; crank, piston, cylinder, and on a 4 stroke the head, but keeping cam assembly.

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As a whole, the four stroke will cost you more to replace everything. You are neglecting the most expensive part of a four stroke, the head and valve train. The crank and piston are about the same price for a two stroke and a four stroke, the difference isn't huge there. A four stroke cylinder is quite a bit cheaper than a two stroke cylinder b/c it has no ports, the ports add a lot to the production cost of a two stroke cylinder. A two stroke head will cost you about $80 however, while a four stroke head will cost you $300-$400 depending on the brand. Add to that the $300 valve train, $250-$400 for cams depending on the brand, and then $100 to get the seats cut, and you are up to $950-$1200 in the head alone.

Now of course, as long as you don't blow it up you should never have to replace the head or cams on a four stroke, however the valves can wear out, so that will put you back $400 between valves and getting the seats cut, while two strokes cost you nothing for head maintenance.

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Well, first of all, you don't replace the crank every time you change a top end, you also don't get the cylinder replated or replaced every time either.

Most top end rebuilds consist of piston + rings + top end bearing + gaskets. Most of the time, you can get away with just fresh rings on the piston anyway.

A 250 can easily go 60-100 hours on a top end depending on how hard the bike is ridden. The top end will cost about $150 to replace and thats it. With a healthy mix ratio, a crank will go through years of abuse before it needs replacement. Same goes for the cylinder, the Nicasil plating will take years of abuse before any issues really arise.

Personally, I ride two strokes because they are funner to ride, smell better, sound better and require a lot more involved riding.

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Personally, I ride two strokes because they are funner to ride, smell better, sound better and require a lot more involved riding.

That's funny. I find the four stroke to be more fun due to front tire traction aided by compression braking. I hafta ride my 250F harder (trails) than my smoker 250 that had an auto clutch.

There is no fact on which is more fun or easier to ride - it's opinion/preference only. ๐Ÿ‘

Now, maintenance items, those be facts and I haven't owned a thumper long enough to know the difference. The take home on cost though is that riding/maintaining a two stroke ain't free like some make it out to be.

Edited by shrubitup
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That's funny. I find the four stroke to be more fun due to front tire traction aided by compression braking. I have grown to dislike the smell of pre mix that permeates clothing, find the sound of a two stroke irritating, and hafta ride my 250F harder (trails) than my smoker 250 that had an auto clutch.

There is no fact on which is more fun or easier to ride - it's opinion/preference only. ๐Ÿ‘

Now, maintenance items, those be facts and I haven't owned a thumper long enough to know the difference. The take home on cost though is that riding/maintaining a two stroke ain't free like some make it out to be.

That's why I started the sentence with 'Personally'. You just have to buy the machine that you will have the most fun on, however you figure that out is up to you.

This isn't a cheap sport, and you have to be prepared to spend a little coin on any performance machine to keep it running.

why do people always feed in to beat the dead horse?

Slow day at work...๐Ÿคฃ

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how come a brand new OEM honda cylinder for a 2005 crf450 is 240$, piston setup for my 450 is 120$ for everything.

and a brand new OEM honda cylinder for a 2002 cr250 is 400$, piston setup for the cr250 is 140$.

is the reason really that 4 strokes are more expensive is due to the valve/cam assembly? otherwise everything I can find at my "source" (which is cheapest I could find BTW.) is way cheaper for a newer 4 stroke than it is for an older smoker.

plus add the fact that a cr250 would need a rebuild every year or two at the most whereas my 450 only needs one every 2-4 years, AND is not that much more expensive?

cr250 full rebuild = 700-800$ every 2 years (thats being generous) so that costs 1500$ for 4 years.

crf450 full rebuild = 1500$ every 4 years... same price as the cr250 except you get a 4 stroke instead.. win-win situation.

so do people like 2 strokes because theyre "funner" to ride? or because theyre way "cheaper" and easier to maintain than a 4 stroke?

Dude. You answered your own question.

Newer parts are mass produced and stockpiled. Older bikes that aren't produced anymore are going to be more expensive partwise because the machines used to make their parts are ripped out and replaced with assemblylines used to make the newer bikes.

Do you honestly think there's a honda plant somewhere that's still setup to make a 2002 CR250? The machinery used to make those cylinders has long since been removed from the assemblyline at Honda and is "maybe" setup somewhere in some remote building and used sporadically, if, and ONLY if, it is still profitable for them to make parts.

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I dont see more maintenance in 4 strokes , i have a 06 450X , i have changed intake valves

That is it anything else i have done to my bike was because i wanted to , not needed to !

I change the oil when its dirty , so far last springs oil is still lookin good so its staying till its dirty (Amsoil) , original piston , rings , clutch, the ONLY things that needed replaced was the chain after 4 years(2,000 miles) , not the sprocket yet , and the tires

my bike starts every time , runs fine , and is reliable as is possible , it has never broke and left me stranded in 4 years , i even had a flat last saturday 10 miles from my truck , rode it back(slowly) and replaced the tube(pinch flat on a rock) and the same tire is back on and was not harmed , i laugh at all this 4 strokes cost too much to maintain crap , its complete BS , maybe if your a Pro racer replacing parts because you are sponsered , and maybe because your rich and can afford to throw in a new piston and crank for no reason other than your own fear that something "might" go wrong someday somewhere , but i would bet that 99% of rebuilds are completely un necessary and a total waste of money ( dont forget your adding the cost of someone to rebuild it , learn to do it yourself and save a thousand or 2 ), and i would love to have that pile of parts to sell , i would be rich as there would be nothing wrong with 98% of it !

If it isnt breaking , or broke , then just put gas in and ride it !

and yes i maintain it and make sure everything is tight and working properly , i change fork oil , keep it greased , keep it clean , and enjoy riding it the rest of the time ! ,, save your money and enjoy the bike

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So far, my experience has been less money with a four stroke. But now that I'm racing instead of play riding in the desert, that could change.

My current race bike is an '09 YZ450, it replaced the '00 YZ426 I've been riding for the last nine years and used in my first four races. And not easy riding either, long, fast, abusive desert rides.

Before my 426, I got back in to riding about 25 or so years ago with an '83 YZ250. After beating that thing up, I got a '91 KX250 and then a '93 WR250. Those three bikes ate up a ton of piston kits, and both the KX and the WR ate up the plating on the cylinders.......the WR twice!

In comparison, my 426 has hundreds of hours on it and only now, after I started racing it last May, did I notice the loss of power from the original top end wearing out. I was faced with the choice of spending money to rebuild the 426, or buy something new like all the guys I race with have. I went with the '09 and have loved it on the track. The one time I took it out to play though, I didn't like it as much as my 426.

I still ride the 426 to play ride and I still haven't rebuilt it. To be fair though, I try to be as religious as I can with oil changes and checking the valves. Now will I get the same longevity from my '09? Time will tell, it gets the same maintenance so I'll watch for problems closely.

I can tell you this, I won't be doing a top end every 40 hours like some would tell you you have to do. ๐Ÿ‘

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Just for arguments sake, let us assume that 2t & 4t maintenance costs are the same over a 4 year period. The 4t will still cost the owner way more, here is why.

The 4t engine is way more complex, has more moving parts, requires more machine work, and is much more expensive to produce. You see this in the cost of the machine. You may say that the MSRP on a 250 & 250F is about the same, but that is a marketing ploy. The 4t cost the company more to produce, there is no doubt about it.

When you sell a used 4t, you will take a huge hit because the bike depreciates in value so much faster than a 2t. People are very scared (with good reason) to buy a used 4t. Why?.... well, they are afraid that the big engine melt-down is only a few hours away. On a 2t, you can buy a used bike, put in a new piston (really easy) and ride off without a care in the world.

In summary:

You pay more upfront cost on the 4t, and lose more when you sell it.

That is not to say that the modern 4t isn't a good bike, you just pay more to ride one.

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