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When will the Chinese make dirtbikes like the Japanese? When oh When?


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i have had previous experience with chinese dirt bikes, trust me, you dont need to tell me that they are crap or, you get what you pay for, i have heard it all before and experienced it myself.

What i want to know though, is when will chinese begin making bikes, and even cars, (if you feel like talking about cars too), at the same quality as the japanese.

I have heard that the japanese bike used to be called jap crap, and look at them now. i am only 16 so i dont know much about the history of japan or china and their automotive industry.

all answers appreciated. thanks

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I was talking with my dad about this very subject. In the 60's and 70's they used to make fun of Japanese cars calling them "jap crap" and teasing the guys in the neighborhood who owned them.

Funny thing is, they all rode japanese dirt bikes 🙂

I had a 2009 SSR 140tx pit bike for a couple months, and I'll tell you that the quality was fantastic. The Chinese quality is coming along. I work in an industry where most of our competitors products are made in China. Sometimes I'm amazed that they can make something so lousy, but yet somtimes I'm impressed with the quality for the price.

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they already do, but they do not market them in the US, they have a bunch that are basically modern XR250's with electric start, some air some liquid cooled, modern showa suspension, mikuni has a big factory in china. A lot of the parts for big name bikes are already made in china, suzuki & yamaha build a lot of parts over there, so it was a logical move for them, they have a big market right inside china, they have enduro races there, the chinese amazon.com (http://www.taobao.com) has lots of dirt bike stuff listed.

And then there's this, it's a honda 450 design

http://www.freenduro.com/index.php/tech/produits/743-pzf-450-la-revolution-est-en-marche

another link

supposedly OEM honda parts are interchangeable, this does not surprise me, my other hobby (RC) has the same thing going on, HPI buggy parts made in china, they remove the HPI logo and sell the same thing for pennies on the dollar, fully interchangeable parts

http://www.torponmedia.com/revista/?p=9055

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Edited by MegaDeTH
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i have heard that its not that they cant make good stuff, its that there quality control is not good. a foreign company will set up a factory in china, get it up a running good putting out quality stuff, then when the foriegn oversite leaves the quality goes down fast. Japan spent the last 50 yrs starting from scratch and delveloped a culture of manufactuing that demanded high quality, it took them time to get it but they also started from nothing. The chinies have not had enough time to develope the high qulity " culture". They probably need another 15 to 20 yrs. Quality comes from the peolpes heat and soul in magament and on the production floor as well as the design.

right now in china its all about production, every thing else is distant second.

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I've only ever heard that on motorcycle forums

I bet everything on my desk was made in china, my monitor, laptop, phones, keyboard, bmw motorcycle's engines made there now too, I know my iphone came from china

quality does not come from peoples hearts, it comes from good engineering and machining and assembly

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The thing with China is that there is a whole gamut of the degree of quality coming out of those factories. Some product sucks, but some is so good it can't be matched by NA factories (for example).

Just look at Taiwan for reference. It used to be that anything made there was utter crap, and that was not even 10 years ago. Now, Taiwan has the tooling, machinery, and engineering that is not matched anywhere in the world.

China will get there, you can see it. They are quickly growing into the next superpower, and India is close behind.

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funny you mention India, honda is building a 2nd motorcycle plant there right now, yamaha already has 2 there, suzuki has at least 1, and kawasaki just announced they are building a plant there.

To those that have never been to asia, they have millions if not billions of motorcycles on the road, it's unreal, I lived in korea for 2 years, and they too like their Harleys for cruising the clubs

stuff like this, only times a hundred thousand in seoul, with everything you can think of stacked on the back, from propain/gas tanks, to whatever this is

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You cant expect to buy a dirt bike in Pep Boys for $500 and go racing. Like Megadeath said, motorcycles are used for everything in that part of the world. I went to India a few years ago, and the sell different mixes for two strokes right out of the gas pump. Almost every house had at least one bike or scooter parked out front.

I saw some statistics earlier this year, and Bajaj sold more of one model bike in one month, than Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha and Suzuki sold combined world wide in a year.

I can guarantee that in China, they aren't riding the same crap that they ship here.

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I remember when the Japanese bikes started coming into the US. We laughed at them but not now day.

The same thing will happen with the Chinese bike. Once they get serious about building them. When that will be no one knows but it will happen.

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well, the chinese certainly have imported some junk bikes but to my knowledge the japanese bikes have always exceeded american and european bikes in design and construction, even the first ones to hit the states in late 50's or so. So the guys talking about "jap crap" nowadays are exactly as smart as the ones talking about it 50 years ago.

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but to my knowledge the japanese bikes have always exceeded american and european bikes in design and construction, even the first ones to hit the states in late 50's or so.

your knowledge would be wrong, it took quite a few years for them to beat the European dirt bikes

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Problem with chinese crap is rotating parts. Chinese can copy a good design such as a Honda but all the rotating parts are on those crappy low quality chinese bearings. If the chinese would subcontract all thier bearings and sleeves from Sweden or Germany thier stuff would go up ten fold in quality

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I started looking at China bikes over 8 years ago and they have come a long way since then. The biggest problem in the past has been that the manufacturers can sell every bike they make now in "3rd World" countries. Once they decided to break into Western markets they started going through a series of revisions to make their product more appealing.

The first changes to the bikes to Westernize them were cosmetic. Take an old XR200 design and add new plastic designs which can still look a little dated. They also tried to add cool names without realizing they were adding lame names in our culture. The first plastic was brittle but got a little better over time. Soft metal and poor fit n finish is the rule rather than the exception. Poor welds that can break, bolts fall out on almost every bike, chains stretch easily, sprockets wear out quickly, etc...

Drum brakes are the norm at first but disks start to appear on the front.

Dual shocks at first and then all single shock with a linkage.

80's technology without the quality.

The second generation of changes were features but still more cosmetic than functional. Inverted forks, aluminum (or squared steel made to look like aluminum) frame, disk brakes are now front and back, etc...

The problem has been those parts weren't as good as Japanese counterparts and they were still trying to use the same old engine. Plastic still isn't as durable as Japanese or Western countries but is improving. Bike names are becoming more generic with letters/numbers rather than "cool" names that are just lame. Other problems mentioned still exist. Styling can be pretty scary looking in an attempt to look cool. Replace one style fail with another. Later versions of these bikes look a little better. Suspension is a little better. Larger displacements come out, most are bored out XR200s but a few appear to be XR250 clones. Clearly a recognition that larger displacement is needed to tap western markets. Most components aren't any better than the previous models.

Some 90's looking parts and still lacking in quality.

What we are seeing with the current bikes is a jump from old XR engines to DR400 or similar clones.

Here is a current bike:

http://picasaweb.google.com/GwilymsPhotos/XY400Y2

The styling isn't bad. Welds look ok but don't match robot precision. The frame doesn't look very strong, the engine mounts are anemic, and what is up with that so called skid plate? Plastic still needs to be better but it should last a few tumbles. Metals are still too soft or brittle on bolts, brakes, rims, bars, shifters, levers, frames, etc... the owner broke stuff on the first fall. The tires suck, that's why the guy fell. I expect the soft metal chains and sprockets to really wear with 400cc engines.

90's or later tech, still cutting corners on quality.

I think we will continue to see cosmetic changes but higher quality components are going to be slow coming. They just don't get it. 🙂

I wouldn't expect a shift in quality for several more years.

The problem I see is that they Chinese are trying to copy appearance and features without really doing any R&D. They certainly don't seem to be testing their products on an MX track or under enduro conditions.

It will be at least 5 years before components see any significant improvement but some odds and ends like the skid plate and engine mounts may start getting revisions sooner as complaints poor in. Don't expect Japanese quality for a decade or more.

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It's the US importers that can buy garbage from Chinese factories for pennies and sell it for dollars here.

There are factories in China that can continue producing low quality merchandise knowing that there are enough importers here willing to buy and pass on their garbage. I bet they laugh at it all the time. Old factories that they'd probably tear down if it wasn't for people buying the stuff it make.

Then across town they have another, newer more modern facotry producing top-quality merchandise.

I'm in Information Technology. Most of the equipment that we use to run our businesses is top quality stuff made in China.

China can and does produce plenty of high quality things, but they also continue to build garbage only because someone is still willing to buy it.

My son bought a Pocket Rocket. On one hand it's garbage, but on the other hand.....I'm still amazed it actually runs and cost only $200.

I don't blame the Chinese for producing garbage, I blame the importers for bringing it here, and ourselves for buying it.

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China can and does produce plenty of high quality things, but they also continue to build garbage only because someone is still willing to buy it.

My son bought a Pocket Rocket. On one hand it's garbage, but on the other hand.....I'm still amazed it actually runs and cost only $200.

I don't blame the Chinese for producing garbage, I blame the importers for bringing it here, and ourselves for buying it.

That is pretty much how I see it. However, I don't blame the importers as they are just supplying what people want and that is the business they are in. The law of supply and demand, you know.

The real problem is that so many Americans are always looking to save a buck instead of ponying up for a better quality product. The Chinese make plenty of very high quality products. Most Americans are not wanting quality as much as they do "cheap". Until the majority stop actually buying the cheap stuff and demanding quality, and paying for it, the importers won't bring in the higher quality stuff. It is really is as simple as that.

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Like most products if chinese built a comprable quality it would come at a comprable price

I dont think this is possible, highly skilled labor over there is still dollars a day, vs 15-30 $ an hour everywhere else, you can have 10 welders/machinists in china for every 1 in a developed country like japan, america, germany

there's just no getting around that

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