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Horses @ Middlecreek today.


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So Oldskoll and I pull up to park at a nice spot and look what we find.

These guys are staging horses, and looking at me as what are you doing here.

Fat old guy with his hands on his waist, talking to him is going south for sure.

So we moved a mile north to horse mountain which is a tad ironic. On the way

back I spotted officials and asked them how this can be. If I come up on them on the trail I am sure that I will spook and then be blamed. They said they were calling out rangers to inform them that Livestock in a OHV area is illegal.

So why is the cow crap on the trails too??????

Nice day and relatively cool under the canopy of trees.

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and the Scott pic of Brian,

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Got to love the way they parked as well. Like screw anyone else who might want to park there.

Otherwise the ride was great. Didn't run into any horses asses either. (pun intended)

Fun was the first order of business......

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Hey guys give those gentlemen ranchers some slack will you?

They only bring the horses up there when they've got some serious bowel issues to 'work out'. :banana:

Thanks for the report & pics. Looks cool in the shade there. ๐Ÿ™‚

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So Oldskoll and I pull up to park at a nice spot and look what we find.

These guys are staging horses, and looking at me as what are you doing here.

Oh great...and thus begins the manufacturing of a "user conflict" issue in an area where there was none before ๐Ÿ™‚ The amount of land available to horse people is staggering in size compared to what we have.

WoodsChick

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Oh great...and thus begins the manufacturing of a "user conflict" issue in an area where there was none before ๐Ÿ™‚ The amount of land available to horse people is staggering in size compared to what we have.

WoodsChick

Thats why I had 4 of the guys out there and calling in the other ranger.

I explained that I was in a no win situation, I said that if I come around a corner and spook one the rider is at high risk. This is then followed by the

"biker should have" crap. I was going to speak to them before we even started buy the body language was apparent. I took the high road and avoided what would have been a nasty exchange. I got lucky and got a USDA truck. I got even luckier when they had seen my point and were doing something about it.

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Why would it have to be a nasty exchange? Even if someone else acts like a dick, that doesn't mean you have to. ๐Ÿ™‚

It was just easier than getting into an exchange to begin with. We could tell by their body posture that they weren't going to take any thing we said as positive. So we avoided the situation. We notified the F/S of the problem .. Let them deal with it from there....

No one wants to get into a confrontation and it wouldn't have done any good to irritate the situation.......................Oldskoo11

I like horses as much as anyone but I don't want to share the OHV trail system with them.............

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I am not aware of OHV only trails on the National Forest? What law or regulation restricts acess to only OHV, at Middlecreek? I thought OHV trails are "Multiple Use" Trails? Open to all.

When riding any trail on the National Forest we should ride with the expectation of encountering others, riders, hikers, equestrians, Mtn Bikers...

I plan to work with Equestrians on Wednesday to clear a multiple use trail. I have done many trail projects with Mtn Bike riders and Equestrians. Great people, enjoying trails like we do. Many care enough to get out and volunteer to keep trails in good shape for all who follow to enjoy. It would be nice if all riders who enjoy riding trails would help to keep them OPEN. Not sure how it benefits our sport to have exclusive use areas? Seems to restrict us to the "reservation".

Woodschick and Velosapians hope to see you on the trails soon.

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from the Forest Service's site:

Off-Highway Vehicle Routes: These are designated OHV trails. The markers have signs and decals designating type of use recommended, level of difficulty, and system numbers which corresponds to the Mendocino National Forest Off-Highway Vehicle Guide available at any Forest Office. Markers or signs with a red slash mean the route is closed to that type of use.

========

and on the Horse Riding Areas section:

Due to the nature of the topography on the Upper Lake District Middle Creek Campground is recommended for families with children or beginning riders so they may enjoy the "play area", while adults or intermediate/advanced riders access the trails up out of the East Fork of Middle Creek.

If you seek a family riding experience with easy access to all trails ranging in difficulty level from novice to advanced, Penny Pines or Deer Valley Campgrounds are much more desirable.

-----------------------------

I don't remember the signposts on the trails up there, but it sure sounds like the FS is encouraging horses to use the same trailheads as the bikes.

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I am not aware of OHV only trails on the National Forest? What law or regulation restricts acess to only OHV, at Middlecreek? I thought OHV trails are "Multiple Use" Trails? Open to all.

When riding any trail on the National Forest we should ride with the expectation of encountering others, riders, hikers, equestrians, Mtn Bikers...

I plan to work with Equestrians on Wednesday to clear a multiple use trail. I have done many trail projects with Mtn Bike riders and Equestrians. Great people, enjoying trails like we do. Many care enough to get out and volunteer to keep trails in good shape for all who follow to enjoy. It would be nice if all riders who enjoy riding trails would help to keep them OPEN. Not sure how it benefits our sport to have exclusive use areas? Seems to restrict us to the "reservation".

Woodschick and Velosapians hope to see you on the trails soon.

There are "mixed use" areas. None of which say anything concerning horses on OHV trails according to the new map.

Last year I got the names of at least 15 people who are members of this forum to volunteer their time to work on or clean up the Upperlake OHV area. I contacted the FS multiple times. I sent in their volunteer agreement with all our names and was told that they were planning some work details. I was also told that since it was fall that we would have to wait till we got some rain before we could do any work on the trail system. That was the last I heard from them. It is now summer again and guess what. Nothing. At this point I have to figure that they don't really need our help or worse yet they don't want it. They have my paperwork and I am not going to beg them to allow me to help

I don't want to get into a pissing match about the whole thing but there are areas set aside in our county for people to enjoy their horses. I have no problem with them enjoying that area. I don't see how it benefits our sport to have a bike/horse accident. And it will happen. Someone a lot less careful than me will come in too hot and boom there ya go.

The people I work for are heavy into the horse thing. They helped with the Glen Eden trail in Scotts Valley and ride often in the Highlands Springs area. So I am not anti horse. There are nice people in every group. This particular group didn't appear to be one of them. They were staking their claim to the area IMHO. If I decided to go ride in either of the aforementioned areas I would get my ass handed to me with a quickness.

Just my take on things........................

Edited by OldSkoo11
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I am not aware of OHV only trails on the National Forest? What law or regulation restricts acess to only OHV, at Middlecreek? I thought OHV trails are "Multiple Use" Trails? Open to all.

When riding any trail on the National Forest we should ride with the expectation of encountering others, riders, hikers, equestrians, Mtn Bikers...

I plan to work with Equestrians on Wednesday to clear a multiple use trail. I have done many trail projects with Mtn Bike riders and Equestrians. Great people, enjoying trails like we do. Many care enough to get out and volunteer to keep trails in good shape for all who follow to enjoy. It would be nice if all riders who enjoy riding trails would help to keep them OPEN. Not sure how it benefits our sport to have exclusive use areas? Seems to restrict us to the "reservation".

Woodschick and Velosapians hope to see you on the trails soon.

As an ex-avid MTB and OHV user now, I have "NEVER" had a good experience with a horses azz on the trail head or any place in between. I used to do a lot of trail work as an MTB rider and on many occasions had equestrians ride up and ask to cut the canopy so they could ride the trail. We would always ask them if they would like to help and they "NEVER ONCE" got off the horse and grabbed the loppers. (Happened every time and min 5 times) As far as I am concern horses belong over there and not over here. Separation is best, when it comes to my iron horse or there grass fed. ๐Ÿ˜ That cowboy was ready to square off on Ossie, and he did the right thing, move on and inform the badge. Right on! ๐Ÿ˜

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Livestock in a OHV area is illegal.

I am not aware of OHV only trails on the National Forest?

Not a pissing match Dave and just stating what was said,

I see the safety of humane and animal as a concern. That said

we are not saying the same thing either.

Someone asked why it has to end up in a certain way; it doesn't.

I choose to walk away and handle it in a proper manner. If I had

choose to stay I would have and still remained with a neutral affect.

Once again you come across as a pompous ass. Gee I wish I were you:lame:

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Ossidog, you did the right thing. It's the rangers job to enforce the rules. DaveWood, that's great you volunteer to work on the trails. I can respect that but maybe you are not completely familiar with this area. I have never seen any hikers, mtn bikers, or horses up there and of the three I think we/dirtbikers should actively discourage the horseriders from going up there. Someone else already said this but I will repeat it. Separation is best. Horses don't like dirtbikes. As a former avid mtn-biker I have yet to meet any horseriders on the trail elsewhere that weren't trailhogging snobs that resented my presence on 'their trails' no matter how quiet or pleasant I was to them. They've got plenty to ride without heading up to DIRTBIKE-LAND! If you need their/horserider's support in your riding areas, to keep them open, that's cool but like Old-Skool said apparently the FS doesn't want anyone's help down here. Sincerely, jim

PS: It's good to hear that the FS, down here anyway, sees the logic in keeping horses and dirtbikes separated. Good job Ossidog!

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From what I understand nobody knows MC/Stoneyford better then Dave, I attempted to get

a hold of him 2 years ago when before divorce took away all my Land Access time. I had alot of it too!

Everybody at Corva said he was the guy up here, so I really wonder if the Official was

misinformed in the process.

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