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I've been a real fan of my xr4 for some time now! Recently I picked up a 2003 YZ250F just for track riding and all I can say is that if the CRF250X is anything like this bike(and I'm sure it will be) it's going to be an awesome replacement for the xr4! The ergos alone are soooooo much better, but the power and especially the throttle response, holy smokes! Add to that the lack of about 40+ lbs and about the best stock suspension on any bike and the xr4 won't be missed for long!

MY opinion is that the crf250 will be the bike to have.....I think the crf450x will be too much of a brute compared to the xr4.

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Still in my opinion an alumium frame has no business on a offroad machine. I rode XRs for 17 years and have recently gone to another brand due to the direction Honda was heading. The Yamaha has a good frame but the DOHC engine is too revvy and not enough stroke for torque. That may work on a SX track but not very well on a rough offroad course. Say what you want about Horse Power but it is TORQUE that moves the bike.

IMHO,

Dwight

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Well, to each his own I guess. Say what you want about torque, but I feel that weight is the biggest enemy of horsepower. I'll take lighter, better ergos and better suspension any day over a tad more torque. For me, any modern 4-stroke (250/400/426/450) has plenty of power. As for racing off-road, I can't comment, since I only trail ride, but gotta believe that 90%+ of xr4 owners are in the same category as I.

The xr4 is a great bike, but after riding a modern 250 4-stroke, I'll never buy another bike weighing 260 lbs +

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I agree with Dwight Rudder about the new 4-stroke 250's being too revvy. Torque is important, and makes the bike more versatile and fun to ride. For example, if I am climbing a steep hill and want to go just a bit faster, I can roll on the throttle and speed up a bit. Or if it gets ugly I can slow down or whatever is required. Now if I am riding a 2-smoke or a top end motor, I can only take the hill at a few speeds, for whatever gear I choose, I have to be revved up in the meat of the powerband or it won't have enough power. If I want to slow down a bit, it will lose too much power and will lug. Also, shifting up is more difficult on steep hills. Even if I rev it to the moon, the next gear is sometimes a big jump and it lugs. I can go the speed I want and it has less tendancy to stall with more torque, it is more fun for me with more torque rather than a bunch of power above 10000 rpm. For the offroad version of a bike, I think they just go cheap and don't change the motor. It would be nice if someone actually built a 250 with offroad in mind rather than just borrowing an mx motor. It looks like honda did the same thing, I bet the crf250x will be basically the same top end revver as the mx version. Honda has the most money and resources, they should do more, I expect more.

RR@ARS also had a good point that weight is a huge issue also. The 250's are quite a bit lighter than the 450's. I thought KTM might be the one to make a offroad 250-300 with low end, because they make a variety of engine sizes with their 2-stroke line. They don't seem too interested in even making a 250 4-stroke, so I don't expect much else from them.

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Good points, but I'm telling you, from a huge xr400 fan, the 03 yz250f is not that far off the torque of an uncorked xr400! I was very pleasantly surprised! Super easy to ride whether you roll-on the throttle or rev it to the moon! This is a very different bike from the wr250f! Has much more on the bottom!

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Still in my opinion an alumium frame has no business on a offroad machine.

Hey Dwight, can you either elaborate on this for me please, or point me to a previous post where I can learn more on your thoughts on this subject?

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Still in my opinion an alumium frame has no business on a offroad machine.

Dwight:

I too would like to read up on it...

Wait, lets see what is alumium on the XR, suframe, swing arm,

triple clamps, Handle bar mounts.

Not to mention I ride with two others who ride CR and CRF's and ride trails hard and have never had a problem with frames.

I would love to hear you reasoning.

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Call it a hunch on the Penton thing. ๐Ÿ™‚

I figured it had to be that. Something tells me there's no Puch thumper! :D

That just goes to show what a flunkie I am; I rode one of those giant KTMs and scared myself silly. Why that over the 450?

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I like Torque and lots of it. I rode a XR600 for 3 years and loved it. A bit heavy but never in wrong gear. I have added a Steahly offroad flywheel weight and LOVE the bike after putting on a wider seat and cushing up the suspension.

As for aluminum frames they transmit too much vibration and impact back to the rider causing the rider to tire sooner. Aluminum tends to crack with age and really takes a beating in the rocks also causing frame cracks. Honda couldn't win a championship on an aluminum frame till they bought Ricky C. and even then, this year Chad Reed on a old style chromoly steel framed bike gave him more than he wanted. Aluminum frames just don't work as well as steel. Kawasaki tried Aluminum frames long ago and quickly abandoned the project. I am not a fan of perimeter frames either. Too rigid, too hard to work on the bike , too hard to get proper fuel capacity also. They built perimeter framed bikes in the 20's and 30's and got away from them. So Perimeter frames are nothing new.

Steel Perimeter frames do work much better than Aluminum.

Oh, and to say that a WR/YZF250 Yamaha has almost as much torque as a XR400 is crazy. They have no low end. They must be screamed to get power out of them. California desert riders will not notice the lack of torque and low end as much as true trail riders who need the extra low end to pull them through knarly situations. You just can't get much torque or low end with 52mm of stroke.

Cher'o,

Dwight

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Well, the next NVP out here Dwight I'll show you some of the tight technical stuff I've found so far. Not the same as sliding between the trees of the SE that's true. However, I never had to worry about falling off the side of a mountain in SC either ๐Ÿ™‚ You'll have to ride an aluminum framed CRF though!

Kevin

motorep146@msn.com

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.....and Dwight, what about Kevin Windhams moto win on the CRF. Maybe the other boys just laid down so he could have a win to welcome him back.

O yeah, I almost forgot. What about Scott Summers SETRA win this spring on that big red piece of crap that you say he hates. Last time I looked at the 650R it had an aluminum frame. That was in your part of the world and he soundly beat current GNCC points leader Barry Hawk. I'm sure that was just a fluke as well. ๐Ÿ™‚

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If you guys followed Motoecycle racing as long as Dwight obviously has you would know that what he says about RC is absolutely the truth, he would win on any major brand of bike, end of story. It's always been that way, the best guys win, not the best bikes win. But it's sure interesting that you guys buy into the fastest bike theory.. Didn't RC do pretty well on the green bike? My other problem with this thread is that we keep comparing a 250 with a 400 or a 525, there's a lot of difference in displacement there!!! ๐Ÿ™‚ I now have a WR450F and it will just keep chugging up a hill long after I have lost my cool sat down and got both feet out helping to keep upright. I don't think it's the best bike for tight woods but it's got plenty of low end, and I have ridden a 525, (obviously not as well as Dwight does) and it's not that much better than the 450 if any, and in the desert the 450 is much more stable and plenty fast. I'm not trying to sell Yamahas here I just think we should compare apples and apples. Big Jim (My first dirt bike was a 250 Greeves, you remember those don't you Dwight?) :D :D

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Lolley, you do realize that KTM does make a 250cc, 4-stroke? It's heavy and has less power than the WR250F. 256 dry, it's listed under KTM 250 EXC Racing. Dirt Rider included it in their 24 hour comparison a couple of months back.

I still think the CRF250X is going to be the ideal bike for me and the type of terrain I ride on. If I was in an area like Dwight where it was full of roots, mud, foliage, etc. I'd probably look for something else.

The new 4-strokes remind me much more of a 2 stroke. Look at how many off road racers still ride 2 strokes. I still believe that people like Dwight and Scot Summers are going to be fast on whatever they ride so for me their opinions are a bit skewed because of this. (no offense meant by that) I have to ride a bike that excites ME, not them. My WR does this way more than the XR400 did and I'm hoping the CRF250X continues that trend. The biggest thing that concerns me with the aluminum frames is damage and repairs.

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Stonewall, First of all winning 1 moto isn't winning a championship nor is it the same as riding 2 to 6 hrs at a time.

RC could win on a moped.

Scott Summers' BRP isn't a perimeter frame either. It is a standard type frame made from aluminum. Scott has obviously gotten the BRP to work, but that doesn't mean he likes it better than the XR600.

Go buy you a CRF and ride it. You may even say you like it.

But it won't be as good as it could have been.

IMHO,

Dwight

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Also, I'd like to point out that RC's bike has NOTHING to do with your bike, It probably doesn't have 10 parts that are the same, and he has different frames for different tracks and conditions and never rides one of them long enough to break them. And once again I'd like to point out that his win record was done partly on the Kawasaki. ๐Ÿ™‚

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