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They're after St. Charles now!


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Somebody should leave a note with a counter-point also alerting riders to the fact that environmental lobby groups have successfully hijacked the Colorado OHV funds, and directing them to join cohvco.org

Also, it might be helpful for members to send a letter using the same email form linked in that note, urging the Forest Supervisor to keep the trail open for OHVs.

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Somebody should leave a note with a counter-point also alerting riders to the fact that environmental lobby groups have successfully hijacked the Colorado OHV funds, and directing them to join cohvco.org

Also, it might be helpful for members to send a letter using the same email form linked in that note, urging the Forest Supervisor to keep the trail open for OHVs.

Good idea and make the note look as close to the original so they may not realize it has been replaced....

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I wouldn't necessarily advocate removing the note that's there, but rather provide a pro-OHV note alongside it to provide folks with a counter view. Pointing out that the trail has long been frequented by responsible motorcycle riders and that any erosion is limited to the man-made trail itself, with no 'striking damage' to any of the surrounding environment as claimed by the other note. Perhaps also pointing out the law of unintended consequences that trail closures simply force law abiding motorcyclists into fewer areas thus increasing environmental impact to those areas.

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Alright! I spend a lot of time in this area (not by choice). There is a trail three miles south of St. Charles called "Millset Trail" which is a non-OHV trail. It is so eroded that it is obscene. A battery of Howitzers could not do as much damage. The person who left this note needs to go hike that trail and rethink "resource damage" or call the Mountain Club for some money and volunteers to fix it (ya right) Our OHV money is put to use almost every year fixing and helping prevent resource damage. The OHV trails look a lot better than the non-OHV trails.

A Colorado State Trails crew is currently working the area. They have a bunch of college age people in green shirts helping them this year. I've never seen them in years past. This could be the cause.

Pace, I don't agree. I will check the St. Charles sign-in every day and remove anything that inspires anything anti-OHV. I'm at the point where I don't care to have a cordial debate with my green "friends" about whether I can ride my motorcyle on ST. Charles. F them! I just got back from working a trail in the area that is on the TMP,but is not maintained by the FS because they worry about conflict.

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Alright! I spend a lot of time in this area (not by choice). There is a trail three miles south of St. Charles called "Millset Trail" which is a non-OHV trail. It is so eroded that it is obscene. A battery of Howitzers could not do as much damage. The person who left this note needs to go hike that trail and rethink "resource damage" or call the Mountain Club for some money and volunteers to fix it (ya right) Our OHV money is put to use almost every year fixing and helping prevent resource damage. The OHV trails look a lot better than the non-OHV trails.

A Colorado State Trails crew is currently working the area. They have a bunch of college age people in green shirts helping them this year. I've never seen them in years past. This could be the cause.

Pace, I don't agree. I will check the St. Charles sign-in every day and remove anything that inspires anything anti-OHV. I'm at the point where I don't care to have a cordial debate with my green "friends" about whether I can ride my motorcyle on ST. Charles. F them! I just got back from working a trail in the area that is on the TMP,but is not maintained by the FS because they worry about conflict.

Agree. They don't make it easy for us and I see no reason to facilitate their protest. Remove the signs!

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Guys, How about if we all organize a trail maintenance day to repair St. Charles? I've been riding and working on that trail for 20 years and in the last few years, since it has been posted on this and other chit chat sites, there has been a significant increase in traffic and the result is damage from riders that don't have the skill/talent/bike to ride that level of a trail. Sometimes we are our own worst enemy. The tree huggers (I hate tree huggers) have a legitimate complaint about the trail damage. If we F it up we should fix it up. I will donate cash for food and beverages for a volunteer crew. Let's turn lemons into lemonade and not give the tree huggers fuel for their fire.

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I'm in. We should get together ride it and take notes and mileage. There are several areas that need attention. I'm free for the next two weeks (on vacation).

A member of the state trail crew said they were going to start on St. C. after they finish work with e. Scis. Do you know any of the F.S. employees that are in charge of the area? Should we check w/them or get-r-done? I've been working on the "other side" for three days this week. It is a lot of work and can the work can feel futile when you're working alone. Two piles of fresh bear sh** also has a tendency to get the mind wandering. Also, have been checking two sign-in registers every other day. Nothing yet. I notice a lot of motorcycle riders do not sign in. A lot of hikers have signed in the past month. I believe this impacts how much $$ can go toward trail rehab. Am I wrong?

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Maybe not $ , but it shows who's using the trails and gives the feds an idea of usage. M/c riders should ALWAYS sign the trail registers Every time. It's a vote for us as users. Not signing in is another passive way of showing that we don't care.

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I'm definitely game for some rehab work. It would have to be a sunday, monday, or tuesday though. I've never ridden the st charles trail, but if I can help, I will.

Even if you sign in under a false name, it still counts. I signed in as CRASH for a long time.

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Guys, How about if we all organize a trail maintenance day to repair St. Charles? I've been riding and working on that trail for 20 years and in the last few years, since it has been posted on this and other chit chat sites, there has been a significant increase in traffic and the result is damage from riders that don't have the skill/talent/bike to ride that level of a trail. Sometimes we are our own worst enemy. The tree huggers (I hate tree huggers) have a legitimate complaint about the trail damage. If we F it up we should fix it up. I will donate cash for food and beverages for a volunteer crew. Let's turn lemons into lemonade and not give the tree huggers fuel for their fire.

I don't think you can just legally go work on the trails. CMTRA has regular trail maintenance days at Capt. Jacks and 717 and they also have them at Rampart. Both those groups are organized and in synch with the FS. They would both appreciate any help.

As for St. Charles, I think somebody, or a small group needs to "adopt" the trail. Then the problem areas could be identified and a grant from our OHV funds should be pursued for the maintenance. The grant should be large enough to pay for the services of FS workers or outside contractors to do the actual labor. Trail repairs/building is a bit of science these days. It requires someone capable of properly engineering so that water run-off etc. is not damaging. And once it's done, it should all be capped off with a great big sign stating who does the maintenance and how it was paid for!!

This is normally a long process. Given where we are in the year, I think what would happen now, is the problem areas should be ID'd, repairs estimated and then a grant app. prepared and submitted for funding for next season. There are others out there with more experience in this area, please advise as you see fit.

If someone out there is willing to take the lead on this I'll help out, and it sounds like a few others will also. I'm available this weekend if anyone wants to meet up there and start working out a plan.

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Went riding in the area today checking a few registers. Ran into "Mike" who is the primary U.S.F.S. employee responsible for the San Carlos district (trails included). I'm sure a few of you met him. He said he desperately needs help for trails like St. Charles. Some of his fellow rangers in other districts have to close trails because they can't get anyone to help maintain them. His OHV grant fund money goes first to the trails that are used the most ( ATV multi-use trails). If you have been in the area, you know trails like East Cisneros (ATV multi-use) need a lot of TLC because of the heavy rains and terrain. These trails get first dibs every year. That leaves our single track at the bottom of the bread bag.

I told him that we have a group interested in heping with St.Charles trail maintenance. I added that we would have to start "small" and do a section or two until we muster more volunteers. Mike or another F.S. employee would go with us to help identify areas that need help, and "help swing some axes."

Mike has been with the F.S. for 30 years and is a multi-user himself. He said he has found many petitions in registers trying to start a writing campaign to ban OHV's from the area.

So far, I count three or four volunteers. Any others before we attempt to put together a work day?

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I'm currently exchanging phone calls with Mike and Bruce (San Carlos Ranger District) regarding specifics of a work day. I would suspect that mid-August would be the best so everyone has time to plan (carpool, childcare, get your bike running). So far, they all seem pumped that we are going to help. They have the "Youth Core" working the upper portion, so they would need us for the lower portion. I will post more information tomorrow evening.

Andy

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Do you think week day or weekend? I need at least a weeks notice for work if it will be during the week. As for the weekends, it looks like the only weekend I couldn't make it would be Aug 14/15 because I am doing the 50/50 ride. Other than that, I'm good to go!

I'll check with some of the other DROC guys and see if they can make it also.

Thanks for pulling this together!

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Thanks for the replies! I'm glad you guys are throwing out dates you can't make it, it will help me coordinate the best day ( a weekend date for sure).

I filed official paper work for "group" volunteers today with the U.S.F.S. I spoke to "Carl" at the Canon office (man in charge of managing OHV grant) and he seemed genuinely pleased that we have a motorcycle group that is going to devote some time to the trail. Now, I'm waiting to hear from them about dates they can have an employee available to manage our work.

Andy

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