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AMA to allow 450 two strokes in the 450class.


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Because it would save the customer money. The AMA isnt intrested in saving us money at all, they want us to spend it. Also, the amount of riders out there now that could even ride a 2 stroke well, is slim!

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Because there isn't a 450 two-stroke option? Closest displacement bike would have been the old Maico 440 or the RM/YZ 465. None of those old bikes would be competitive today, unfortunately. But dang, were they fast back then! A modern YZ 250 would put it to shame today.

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If they did which would win? I would think that there would be more riders in the top 10 on 4t simply because the 4t is easier to ride faster around a track

Edited by Stu2
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A new production 450 2 stroke with new development would be very cool. My biggest issue with my old KX 500 was the vibration.

Get rid of the excess vibes, make them easier to start and use current manufacturing philosophies and a 60 hp monster would be easy to make ----

trouble is -- how many of us really use all the power our 50-54 hp 450's have? I can't

But the 2 stroker could have equivalent power, with 2 stroke handling, and perhaps 10 pounds less weight

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Because there isn't a 450 two-stroke option?

That's part of what I'm getting at. If the rules would allow a new 400 or 450 smoker would be awesome to see. We already know a AF CR500 is faster around the track then a CRF450, Quote from transworld Motocross:

"The Truth!

Average Lap Times:

CR500AF Limited Edition VS. CRF450R

CR500AF LE

Donn Maeda: 158.69

Mitchell Bailey: 153.44

Ryan Cooley: 149.03

CRF450R

Donn Maeda: 159.06

Mitchell Bailey: 155.12

Ryan Cooley: 153.78."

So i think the large CC 2stroke would help with the low end torque and make it more like a 4t bottom end.

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the 2-st days of being mainstream are gone............get used to it, i love 2-st but they arent coming back so all this debate about letting a 250 2-st in the 250f class and making 300 or 380 2-st to compete with the 450's is a fantasy.......all their budget and r&d is in 4-st

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the 2-st days of being mainstream are gone............get used to it, i love 2-st but they arent coming back so all this debate about letting a 250 2-st in the 250f class and making 300 or 380 2-st to compete with the 450's is a fantasy.......all their budget and r&d is in 4-st

Maybe a fantasy for now in pro racing, but not a fantasy an AMA amateur racing rules!

From Eastern Dirt Magazize:

"AMA Rule Change: 250 Four-Strokes and 250 Two-Stroke to be combined

The AMA Congress has eliminated handicapping for the previous 125cc/250F (Lites) classes. For 2008, all Lites machines will have a 250cc and under displacement–regardless of engine type (two-stroke or four-stroke). In addition, the previous 250 two-stroke/450 four-stroke class is now open to four-stroke and two-stroke engines from 122cc-Open cc. At the moment these rules apply to Amateur racing, not pro racing. These rules will be in effect at the 2008 Loretta Lynn race. These rule changes might kill the 125 two-stroke (although opening the door for big-bore 125s in the Modified clases), but it could save the 250cc two-stroke from extinction. The rule changes are design to lower the cost of racing, equalize the classes and keep the two-stroke viable as a start-up machine. All good causes."

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Maybe a fantasy for now in pro racing, but not a fantasy an AMA amateur racing rules!

From Eastern Dirt Magazize:

"AMA Rule Change: 250 Four-Strokes and 250 Two-Stroke to be combined

The AMA Congress has eliminated handicapping for the previous 125cc/250F (Lites) classes. For 2008, all Lites machines will have a 250cc and under displacement–regardless of engine type (two-stroke or four-stroke). In addition, the previous 250 two-stroke/450 four-stroke class is now open to four-stroke and two-stroke engines from 122cc-Open cc. At the moment these rules apply to Amateur racing, not pro racing. These rules will be in effect at the 2008 Loretta Lynn race. These rule changes might kill the 125 two-stroke (although opening the door for big-bore 125s in the Modified clases), but it could save the 250cc two-stroke from extinction. The rule changes are design to lower the cost of racing, equalize the classes and keep the two-stroke viable as a start-up machine. All good causes."

Good. Sounds like my plans for a 500cc smoker were not unwarranted.

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I think doing something like 50-100ccc more than the previous 2 stroke sizes would be a pretty good idea. Maybe something like a 150cc or 200cc 2 stroke with the 250Fs and then a 300 or 350cc 2 stroke with the 450s. I think it would make 2 strokes more competitive with the current 4 strokes.

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That's part of what I'm getting at. If the rules would allow a new 400 or 450 smoker would be awesome to see. We already know a AF CR500 is faster around the track then a CRF450, Quote from transworld Motocross:

"The Truth!

Average Lap Times:

CR500AF Limited Edition VS. CRF450R

CR500AF LE

Donn Maeda: 158.69

Mitchell Bailey: 153.44

Ryan Cooley: 149.03

CRF450R

Donn Maeda: 159.06

Mitchell Bailey: 155.12

Ryan Cooley: 153.78."

So i think the large CC 2stroke would help with the low end torque and make it more like a 4t bottom end.

Interesting that these guys were nearly 2-3 or less seconds per lap on the big 2T. Wonder which track it was? Maybe more "open" with sweeping turns?

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could you imagine the power band? i would be like taking off in a space shuttle

you could tune a big bore 2 stroke like a 450 to be just as linear as a 4-stroke 450, still have more overall HP, still have more overall torque, still be cheaper to fix in case of an engine failure, and probably be lighter.

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the 2-st days of being mainstream are gone............get used to it, i love 2-st but they arent coming back so all this debate about letting a 250 2-st in the 250f class and making 300 or 380 2-st to compete with the 450's is a fantasy.......all their budget and r&d is in 4-st

Well I guess my son and I better put all these trophys and plaques in the trash since the two strokes we podium on are not mainstream. I love coming out of a corner and a 250f is trying to go inside me they almost pull it off then the two stroke YZ starts hooking up and my fat butt jets away.

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Considering that a 250 2t can "almost" beat a 450 4t, then maybe KTM should have built a 350 2t. It would have been 20 pounds lighter ~ a stock 250sx is about 212, a 450sx is about 235, it would have or "could" have the same peak power and just as much torque. And it would own the 4t in any corner as the 4t's higher rotating mass makes cutting into the inside of a 2t all moto long just not feasible.

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