dry, hard packed, slick track tips.

[Bryanj]

my track is clay and it hasnt rained in awhile so its super dry. The ground is so hard you cant hit with a shovel and it wont even make a mark. I dont have a access to any heavy equip so tilling and such is out of the picture, So what are some good tips for hard packed slick tracks?

thanks

[tye1138]

Kinda funny you brought up this subject, I just did a lot of reading/research on it because I was getting caught off-guard at one of the tracks I frequent. It seems that lower gear, trying to keep the tire from spinning and even braking are critical to hard pack riding. If the entire track is hard pack supposedly higher tire pressures can help a bit as well. Obviously, sliding the bike around doesn't help because its so slick, so being smooth is much more critical. Body position is also different because you arn't leaning the bike over as much because there is nothing to lean onto-into like a rut or lomb.

Maybe Gary will come on in and give both of us some tips!

Edited August 5, 2010 by tye1138

[rmz26]

Kinda funny you brought up this subject, I just did a lot of reading/research on it because I was getting caught off-guard at one of the tracks I frequent. It seems that lower gear, trying to keep the tire from spinning and even braking are critical to hard pack riding. If the entire track is hard pack supposedly higher tire pressures can help a bit as well. Obviously, sliding the bike around doesn't help because its so slick, so being smooth is much more critical. Body position is also different because you arn't leaning the bike over as much because there is nothing to lean onto-into like a rut or lomb.

Maybe Gary will come on in and give both of us some tips!

Higher tire pressure makes the tire more slick on hard pack.

[HappyGilmore]

Higher tire pressure makes the tire more slick on hard pack.

Thats what i was thinking, has a smaller contact patch.

There was a section of my local track that was hard packed a few weeks ago. It was a fast gradual corner and i didnt expect it. Back end came out and i started tank slapping trying to save it. Thought i was going down hard for sure but i recovered. Scared the heck outta me!

[Jeremy365]

I ride at Sandhill Ranch MX, that place is so hard pack. You know how the faces of jumps get after a day of riding? Whole way around the track. The only thing I do different there compared to a loamy track is I have to control my throttle more coming out of corners, and controlling my braking coming into corners.

[tye1138]

Higher tire pressure makes the tire more slick on hard pack.

Thats what I thought as well! I think I misunderstood what I was told. I think what they were saying was lomb vs sand. The harder surface (lomb) you want higher pressures, the softer surface (sand) you want lower pressure.

That makes more sense to me, thanks for the reassurance!

[DirtPipeRider]

If you can get your hands on some factory rubber, the softer compound will really help. Other than that just focus on body position, keep the core of your body loose, smoothness is key on hardpack, presuming you are riding a 4stroke make full use of your engine braking and pay special attention to rolling on the throttle in the corners, chopping the throttle when its slick will only get you into trouble.

if you have body-armour STRAP IT cos if you go down on serious hardpack its like hitting concrete!

essentially for riding hard pack you just have to put into practice everything you have ever learned about riding!

[DirtPipeRider]

One more thing that really helps, you should always do this anyway but keep your eyes up on the furthest point of where you are going and this will naturally help keep you in shape.

[cantwait]

One of my local tracks never gets prepped or water, so it is always extremely dry and rough. One thing I think helps for sure is make sure you get your braking smooth and efficient. Also the corners are usually flat and dry, so you will want to be sure to use proper cornering technique and be smooth on the throttle.

[Bryanj]

alright i went out today and tried some of these tips and it helped a good bit. thanks

[keepitdown]

This will 4 sure help on thottle control training.

[DirtPipeRider]

Just keep practicing on it using the tips given and before long you will be tearing it up on the hard stuff! do you have hard tires or are you running intermediates? the tighter tread pattern and larger cornering knobbles on hard tires will really make a difference even if you can't get your hands on factory rubber.

[Bryanj]

im using michilin mx3's they are intermediate. Usually its not this dry so i didnt think to get the hard compounds, they make that much diff?

[DirtPipeRider]

Yeah absolutely! they will make all the difference. i mean its not worth the investment if you only have a day or two a year when the track is baked hard, however if conditions stay like it for a while then they are an essential. Pirelli Scorpion 486's are brilliant hardpack tyres and so are Metzler MC6's, have a shop around though, check out some reviews and stuff if you are gonna get some.

[dlowe102]

Going into the turns faster to the point where your sliding a little in a 2 wheel drift and use the your butt and outside leg along with throttle to control the slide. The faster your corner speed the less wheel spin coming out.

The secret is to force the 2 wheel drift

[frankdecrosser]

I always use up my worn sand tyres on clay hardpack because they wear out petty fast.

I use as much front brake in corners as possible (sometimes till front starts to wash out, no prob just release a bit) and in tight u-turns sometimes a rear brake slide.

I lay the bike pretty flat when cornering and turn on throttle smoothly till bike starts breaking out a bit and control the slide with my body position.

[Swapper265]

Just keep practicing on it using the tips given and before long you will be tearing it up on the hard stuff! do you have hard tires or are you running intermediates? the tighter tread pattern and larger cornering knobbles on hard tires will really make a difference even if you can't get your hands on factory rubber.

Hey bud, seeing as though you keep bringing it up, can you tell us where we can buy factory tyres. Do you know what those tyres are worth ?? I have been in the bike industry a long time and I have never even touched a set of factory tyres let alone ridden on them.

[DirtPipeRider]

I don't know where you are from but I live in the uk where we have open pits at the races and generally if you build a rapour with some of the teams you can buy they're tires that have been used for one moto and would otherwise be thrown away.

[dogfish]

Thats what I thought as well! I think I misunderstood what I was told. I think what they were saying was lomb vs sand. The harder surface (lomb) you want higher pressures, the softer surface (sand) you want lower pressure.

That makes more sense to me, thanks for the reassurance!

FYI; the dirt you refer to as "lomb" is called "loam". It is usually a mixture of sand and clay. Some tracks have their dirt professional mixed and the ratio of sand to clay determines how hard the track can pack in or become rutted up.

In terms of riding on hard packed clay, theres no substitute for the correct tire and tire pressure and proper clicker settings of the suspension front to back. I grew up riding clay one weekend and deep sand the next. that was thirty years ago when we ran 1 set of tires everywhere and suspension tuning was only afforded to the pro's out in Cali.

[tye1138]

FYI; the dirt you refer to as "lomb" is called "loam". It is usually a mixture of sand and clay. Some tracks have their dirt professional mixed and the ratio of sand to clay determines how hard the track can pack in or become rutted up.

Thanks for the correction.

In terms of riding on hard packed clay, theres no substitute for the correct tire and tire pressure and proper clicker settings of the suspension front to back. I grew up riding clay one weekend and deep sand the next. that was thirty years ago when we ran 1 set of tires everywhere and suspension tuning was only afforded to the pro's out in Cali.

The situation out here is kinda funny because of the temp's. You've gotta water the tracks every hour and it winds up being interesting. After the water truck leaves, the track is unridable for 5 - 10 minutes, its just mud. As it starts to dry out, the mud turns to clay, that stuff is easier to ride in. 20 min later the track turns into hard pack and its like riding on concrete. You can never get the perfect surface during the summer. But in the winter, the tracks are perfect, the mixture they wind up using tends to be absolutely perfect and doesn't need much watering.

The funny thing is, I have experimented with alternative tire pressures and suspension settings. But no matter what I do, the bike loves one setting and if you hit that sweet spot, it performs amazingly. Otherwise, you're fighting it everywhere, especially in the long corners where you're trying to maintain drive.

Good info though, thanks.