Swing Arm swap question

[busted bones]

I was looking into the swing arm swap that Dr D did and wondered would it only work with the Alum framed bikes? I have a nice sized crack where my chain guide smacked a rock and need to replace it. I know Ill need the linkage to go with it and I would need the 09 450f rear wheel now right?

[RCannon]

The parts list is pretty long once you start figuring a rear axle, rear brake carrier, wheel, arm, probably linkage, chain adjusters....and who knows what else.

You then have to decide which swingarm to use. The 250f and 450f do not use the same one. The 450's is longer.

Thats hard to justify when older arms are on ebay for under 100.00

[busted bones]

The parts list is pretty long once you start figuring a rear axle, rear brake carrier, wheel, arm, probably linkage, chain adjusters....and who knows what else.

You then have to decide which swingarm to use. The 250f and 450f do not use the same one. The 450's is longer.

Thats hard to justify when older arms are on ebay for under 100.00

Yeah, I was looking through and thought I would ask first since for a bit there was a swing arm for an 09 for less than 250.

I was also wondering how this might affect the weight balance of the bike. Its weight taken off the rear wheel which changes the distribution forward which should mean more traction on the front tire but I wasnt completely sure.

[s14 2510s]

I bought the 09 450 swingarm, link, caliper, zipty sharkfin, and 09 bolts off ebay. I dont think it will work though. Ive been too buisy racing and preparing for ice racing to try the swap. From what ive read the shock was in a different spot and this swap wont work on a alum frame yz250. If it works ill let you know.

Were is the article that you refer to of dr.d doing a swingarm swap? Id like to read it.

[busted bones]

I bought the 09 450 swingarm, link, caliper, zipty sharkfin, and 09 bolts off ebay. I dont think it will work though. Ive been too buisy racing and preparing for ice racing to try the swap. From what ive read the shock was in a different spot and this swap wont work on a alum frame yz250. If it works ill let you know.

Were is the article that you refer to of dr.d doing a swingarm swap? Id like to read it.

I was asking about steel framed YZs and he did it to an Alum frame YZ for a race he competed in, I believe it was something at Glen Helen. I forgot where I found it and I think it was about a year ago that he did it. It was in a wrap up by one of the mags. He himself has been very tight lipped about how he did it though.

[CaptDan]

http://twostrokemotocross.com/2009/05/these-guys-are-racing-two-strokes/

https://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=877552

I compiled a list for the swap, but it's for the AL-framed YZs. Not sure how it would work on the steelie...

[s14 2510s]

Should be the same as the steel frame down to 02 for shure. Im going to do the swap on my 05 yz250. Or atleat try to do it. Im not going to run the bigger axle I machiened 3mm spacers im going to put inside the shark fin and inside the ears to the swingarm. Then I dont have to switch my wheel bearings. I use my spare wheels on both bikes and dont plan to swap the other older bike to the 09 yz450f swingarm.

Captdan if you find time could you please list what is involved parts wise to do the swap. So far I have theses parts off a 09 450 - swingarm, links, all the bolts from the bike, rear caliper with oe shark fin and zipty sharkfin. Do I use the yz250 rear shock? I havnt taken off the rear wheel or swingarm to compare the two. I see the 09 arm dosnt use steel plates on the inside of were the axle mounts so im going to have to measure that to see if there needed. Im just unshure as of know what link and shock to use with the 09 arm on the 250 frame. We will figure out this swap and it will be the new hot ticket for 250 owners. If yamaha wont upgrade them we will! So far I have under 300 into this including the zipty sharkfin.

[RCannon]

Yamaha saved some weight on the 2009 swingarm, but a lot more was taken from the rear hub. I woudl think a person would want to use both for maximum effect.

[busted bones]

Hey S14, keep me posted on this, I was looking through the Alum frame swap thread as well and it seems like everything should fit as well since the only thing I saw mentioned that was needed in swapping those was the swing arm bolt. Nothing about linkages being different

[CaptDan]

This is everything I know about the YZ/2009 YZF swingarm swap...

Judging from news reports and the photo of Doug Dubach’s Alan Olsen-prepped YZ250, a 2009 F swingarm will work on a YZ 2-stroke. Doug says the swingarm is from a 450. (Speculation says the 450 swingarm is longer, and this helps keep the YZ’s front end planted.)

The swingarm pivot bolt is the same part number (1C3-22141-10-00) for the 2006-2009 YZ250, 450, & 250F, so it would be a safe assumption that the 2009 F swingarm will fit into the 2-stroke YZ frame.

The 2009 F rear suspension linkage components have been changed to match the new swingarm, so most likely the 2009 F linkage bits will be required for the swap to fit and maintain suspension geometry with the 2009 F swingarm.

The two relay arm bolts have been changed for the 2009 F, so it appears these will be needed to match the 2009 F relay arm.

(The one item I can’t completely resolve is whether the linkage pick-up point on the 2009 F frame matches – geometry-wise – the 2-stroke frame.

The 2009 YZ250F uses the new swingarm and linkage, yet uses the same frame (5XC-21101-90-00) that it has used since 2006. In 2006, the YZ, 450, & 250F all ran the same swingarm (1C3-22110-50-00), but the F bikes ran different relay arms & connecting rods than the YZ. I’m not sure if this relates to a different linkage pick-up point on the frame or not.)

The 2009 F rear axle diameter has gone up 3mm (to 25mm), so anything that the new, bigger rear axle passes through will be needed for the swap. This means adjuster blocks, spacers, even the brake caliper carrier.

(A money saver could be to simply bore out the axle hole in the YZ caliper to 25mm.)

The 2009 rear shock is said to be identical to the 2008 YZ450F shock, which is supposed to be the same -- externally -- as the YZ.

From a cross-reference chart that lists rear suspension part numbers for the 2006-2009 YZs & YZ-Fs comes this list of what is needed to swap a 2009 F rear suspension onto a 2-stroke YZ.

2009 parts needed:

- Swingarm

450F 34P-22110-00-00 (appears to be longer than the 250F.) $610.26

250F 17D-22110-00-00 $575.12

- Relay arm 17D-2217A-00-00 $100.57

- Relay arm bolts 34P-22122-00-00 $8.62 (2 req.)

- Connecting rod 17D-2217F-00-00 $113.69

- Con. rod-to-frame bolt 5XC-22121-90-00 $16.56

(FWIW, I am not POSITIVE the linkage and bolts have to be swapped. This list is for a 'worse-case' scenario.)

- Rear axle 17D-25381-00-00 $42.73

- Axle nut 90185-22009-00 $12.14

- Axle washer 90201-22021 $3.30

- Collars 17D-2530S-00-00 $20.02 (2 req.)

- Adjuster block 1 17D-25388-00-00 $17.01

- Adjuster block 2 17D-25389-00-00 $15.39

- Rear hub 17D-25311-00-00 $153.46

- Rear caliper assy. 17D-2580W-01-00 $222.91

There are still a few miscellaneous nuts & bolts and odds & ends that are not listed. These are Yamaha list prices from Yamaha Parts Depot.

http://www.yamahapartsdepot.com/default.asp

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2009 YZ450F media notes:

The biggest change for 2009 is the swingarm. Its hydro-formed shape is altered to give the bike a claimed improvement in cornering and traction by reducing the rigidity in twisting motion and in vertical stiffness. It is stiffer horizontally, or in loads placed from the side as well as being 350 grams lighter. The linkage is also all-new but keeps the same rate and activates the exact same shock as the 2008 model.

The rear hub is lighter, and uses three bearings and a larger 25mm axle.

http://www.dirtrider.com/reviews/mot...50f/index.html

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A new hydroformed swingarm creates a different feel in the rear end. The new unit is a piece of aluminum art compared to the old with a sleeker design and a noticeable lack of the linkage hole which cleans up the appearance. A lighter rear hub cuts unsprung weight by a claimed half-pound, and the new swingarm is said to knock off another quarter-pound. The hub also gets a 3mm larger axle (25mm diameter) and switches to a three-bearing arrangement.

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/277/17...irst-Ride.aspx

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Running with a new ultra-light swingarm, as well as a lighter rear hub and stiffer rear axle, the ’09 bike’s reduced unsprung weight and revised rigidity balance means you can turn quicker and exit bends faster than ever before.

http://www.yamaha-motor.ro/products/...ion/yz450f.jsp

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- Newly designed swingarm is lighter and helps to achieve excellent rigidity balance for superb cornering and rear wheel traction.

- Lightweight suspension linkage is redesigned to match the new swingarm.

- New rear wheel hub is lighter and designed for the larger 25mm diameter axle (up from 22mm), helping to achieve the overall rigidity balance of rear suspension components.

http://www.buyersguide.com/OffRoadMo...450F.php?page=

[s14 2510s]

So I had some time tonight and I took my 05 arm off and meashured. The 09 yz450 arm and link will work on a 02-present 2 stroke. You have to use the 09 sharkfin and caliper though. The 05 sharkfin didnt line up with the 09 arm and the 05 caliper dosnt work on a 09 fin. Good thing I bought them and a zipty sharkfin. The lack of the steel plates on the 09 arm is made up in the thickness of the ears. What im doing is making spacers because Theres no way I can switch all my wheels to a 25mm hub and axle. The spacers are as follows - ID 22.05mm OD 25mm, caliper side 33.5mm thick, sprocket side 11.3mm thick. Im planning to make a few sets of spacers. You do need the bolt and nut for the bolt that connects the link to the arm. I hope to get the spacers by thursday or friday. Then I should be golden I hope. Ill update this again later this week with picks and a ride report.

[RCannon]

If you have time, coudl you please weigh both arms? I'm curious if the weight reduction is real, or brochure.

[busted bones]

So I had some time tonight and I took my 05 arm off and meashured. The 09 yz450 arm and link will work on a 02-present 2 stroke. You have to use the 09 sharkfin and caliper though. The 05 sharkfin didnt line up with the 09 arm and the 05 caliper dosnt work on a 09 fin. Good thing I bought them and a zipty sharkfin. The lack of the steel plates on the 09 arm is made up in the thickness of the ears. What im doing is making spacers because Theres no way I can switch all my wheels to a 25mm hub and axle. The spacers are as follows - ID 22.05mm OD 25mm, caliper side 33.5mm thick, sprocket side 11.3mm thick. Im planning to make a few sets of spacers. You do need the bolt and nut for the bolt that connects the link to the arm. I hope to get the spacers by thursday or friday. Then I should be golden I hope. Ill update this again later this week with picks and a ride report.

Im curious as to which bolt youre talking about for connecting to the arm, I dont have a dirt bike in front of me so I cant go out and look at one.

[s14 2510s]

Its not much lighter just swaping the arm. The weight reduction was not why I was doing the swap. I just like to try new things out on my bike. To me its a more solid less flexing arm. I was trying to get rid of my 05 arm because it was the old style and see if there is anything to gain from a new link design. I already regreased and installed the link and arm on my bike so im not going to weigh them. Im just waiting on my spacers and I have to bleed my rekluse left hand brake and ill be riding again. The bolt you have to buy is the bolt that normaly goes through the hole in the arm to connect the link to the arm. Olney on the 09 it dosnt have a hole in the arm it bolts on tabs below the arm and uses its own bolt. The rest of the bolts you just reuse. The 09 arm feels lighter but not by much. I olney have 200 into the swap so far thanks ebay.

[rcdude33]

I know is that you are gona have to change a lot of things on it bunk think captn d clearedthat up with the cost of all the parts

[s14 2510s]

used 09 arm 70, used 09 link 55, used sharkfin and caliper 25, all the bolts from a 09 yz450 25, and my zipty sharkfin was 100. So in total ill have around 300 into the complete swap with the aftermarket shark fin. If you bought it all new it wouldnt be worth it. I bought a 05 yz250 for cheap knowing if I bought a newer yz250 id still be taring it down to redo the engine and bike. The spacers should be done by friday my cousins are making me 2 sets so I might sell one set. I will take pictures this weekend.

[chadzu]

I would be a little worried about using the smaller bearing rear hub. Since Yamaha designed less torsional rigidity into the new arm it as a by product puts more stress on the rear axle and hub. The new 25mm axle and 3 bearing rear hub adds needed strength. The older axle and hub will have to contend with torsional stresses that it wasn't designed for.

Now, it will probably work fine. I mean Yamaha has to build these things for the likes of Bubba, so mear mortals don't usually reach the limits of the bikes, but keep an eye on the axle and hub.

[RCannon]

I wonder what the end result will be if the hub is stronger, but the arm weaker vs a strong arm and a weaker hub and axle? It woudl be fun to test.

I'm sure the hub will be strong enough. The Ninja bike held this lady.

[APBT]

The Ninja bike held this lady.

Yikes!!! Please promise us you will never post an attachment that looks like this again.

[busted bones]

Yikes!!! Please promise us you will never post an attachment that looks like this again.

He actually posts it quite regularly and Ive seen it probably 3 times in the last 2 years from him.