The loose bolt cure

[Balistic]

I was reading CRF falling apart when some thoughts jumped into my head, reguarding thread locking compounds and neverseize. To re-hash, the thread was about fasteners falling off durring a ride and had anyone else come across this issue. I'm not trying to re-start another post on this, but think it would be better to note the differences in threadlockers. For clarification I use Loctite more from exposure, I'm not trying to sell them, and appologize now if it seems like I am.

Loctite as a thread locker has different strengths and uses, if I remember right blue is generally a mid strength that's meant for bolts and nuts up to 1/4" and easily removable with a wrench, red is a heavier strength meant for 1/4 to 3/8" and you may need heat to remove with a wrench, and green is a penetrant, normally. My experiance with it is that you want to clean off the bolt (head, threads...) before you apply the stuff, give it a minute before you go to tighten it, and then you can install and tighten down.

I've heard of antisieze working in the way that dsmolj was describing(grease the threads w/it and the bolt after tightneing will hold tight), although for piece of mind I'd still re-check tightness after each ride.

Then you have safety wire, which involves drilling the head of the bolt from one wrench flat to opposite, tighten the bolt to spec and then isert and wrap (with safety wire or mechanics wire [same diff?]) from bolt 1 around stationary part like frame or maybe another bolt, so that it cannot unthread far even if it does start to loosen. Can anyone provide more information here? I'm still not quite sure of the best way to wire tight.

[rubbersdown]

You can not use antiseize as a threadlocker. It does the exact opposite. The whole point behind antiseize is that it prevents the threads from galling and locking to the bolt when it stretches while torquing it down. It should always be used any time a steel bolt is inserted into aluminum threads i.e spark plugs and some aluminum block bolts. should never be used as a threadlocker because it will not work for that application.

[john484]

when safety wiring, leave a little play in the strand between bolts. Too-tight wire will get killed by vibration quickly. I like the .32" wire, as do most people. The smaller stuff is not as reliable.

FWIW I have never safety wired anything on a dirtbike.

[GTXR]

Never had any problems with bolts coming loose on any of my rides??? Make sure they are tighten correctly and should be fine!! Never seize and thread lock only where suggested or needed.

[highmarker]

Since many of the fasteners on the crf (what the op mentioned) thread into aluminum I suggest not using loctite. Most dirtbikes suffer way more from corroded or seized fasteners and the resulting stripped threads than lost bolts. I suggest using a little grease on the threads of most bolts, even if they gets loose you'll rarely have it walk out and lose it.

[markgoodall]

The whole point behind antiseize is that it prevents the threads from galling and locking to the bolt when it stretches while torquing it down.

I thought it was to help prevent the inevitable corrosion-like problems that occur when dis-similiar metals are in contact for extended periods of time.

[ziegler408]

anti-seize is for high traffic areas that involve mud/water,dirt, or bolts that get heat cycled a lot. or when water mud gets into the threads of a bolt rusting will occur and when that occurs you have yourself welded on bolts that usually only come off when broke off! and it also is used for 2 dis-similiar metals that will weld themselves together...

[rubbersdown]

I thought it was to help prevent the inevitable corrosion-like problems that occur when dis-similiar metals are in contact for extended periods of time.

That too, and as said above anything that heat cycles regularly. Its great stuff and i buy it in big bottles because I use it so much but never as a locker.

[ziegler408]

thread locker is a different animal from anti-sieze, thread locker is used to chemically lock a bolt into place to avoid backing out..reed petal screws come to mind..don't want those suckers backing out and have your cylinder eating them!!!!

[theflanman]

Keep in mind torque specifications are for dry bolts. I believe Fastenal has some information on this. I'll post it when I find it.

[FRECNDY]

Pick up a copy of Carroll Smith's "Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners and Plumbing." a.k.a. "Screw to Win." It's a layman's bible for fasteners, even though it was written decades ago. Physics and metal haven't changed that much.

[Not2Sure]

Never been a fan of locking compounds on bikes myself, ive seen plenty of striped threads and broken bolts in bikes because of the thread locker holding on to tight. Been using anti seize since i can remember on pretty much every bolt ive touched on any bike ive had and had just a few bolts come loose in 18 odd years and 20 something bikes ive had, i just use a spring washer on the bolt if required. The only stripped threads and broken bolts ive had since using it were on bolts either cross threaded or with locking compound on them before i got to them. A friend of mine is a motorcycle mechanic and says in the 25 years he has been on the job he must have drilled and tapped 3-4 hundred new threads because of people using locking compounds where it just is not needed and just a few where an anti seize compound was used. Dirtbikes just get to dirty to often and treated like s#it to need anything that is going to help keep a bolt in its place. At the end of the day i think if you need locking compound to stop your bike falling to pieces you might just need to learn the ''feel'' of how tight any specific bolt should be-simple as that!!!.

[ziegler408]

I sure hope people are only ptting thread locker where the manual calls for it..like on reed petal,sprocket bolts, and exhaust mounting bolts..that's bout the only places that call for loctite...

[tenis24]

Goose G. said there isn't a drop of loctite on RD's bike, but proper torque is very important.

I used to safety wire together the two oil drain plugs on my 250f Yam, because they are bad about coming loose.

[Woody R]

Use to put the red Loctite on some bolts that i know might loosen up, the ones on the tank for an example, have lost some of them because i dont want to tighten them too much since im afraid i might loose the threads.

And sometimes i put anti seize on bolts i know for sure will get stuck after a while.

[ziegler408]

Rd? Ryan dungey?

[Balistic]

I'm in agreement with ziegler408, only use it where you need it. I'm glad there are a few on the ball of this subject. My point was that it seems the information is out there, but it didn't seem like the stuff is being used as intended, try using a low strength formula for something that really wants the high strength and then wonder why the bolt/nut went missing - I was hoping to make it slightly more obvious. Yes you still need to apply the right torque to fasteners, but if they still go missing then try the threadlocker. I can even believe that you still need to re-tap/drill out where the stuff has "rusted" in place, aluminum frames and steel bolts don't like eachother and love to corrode, in one way or another. The best way to acccelerate this is to spray salt water over the area you want to fail and leave it in heat for a while.... you shouldn't be able to get it apart without a torch or saw after.....

EDIT: The neversieze issue was that it lubes the threads, which {in theory} make the bolt turn easier {again, in theory} which means less torque used to seat and tighten, so you use more torque to actually tighten than is used up as resistance to turning. The back side of that is that if it's easier to put in, then it's possibly easier to remove, and so I restate, if I used it, then for piece of mind I'd be looking at that bolt again after a ride, if it's even still there. No, it won't hold it in place like even a lock washer will, but you will be able to remove it again afterwards.

Edited November 29, 2010 by Balistic
memory improved

[zukboy789]

You guys want the real solution? Well here it is. Put some clear silicone on the bolts. After a few applications of it the hole becomes gummed up right? All you do is take a tap and run it through. This method has kept me from losing bolts numerous times.

[ziegler408]

And I have never snapped bolts from thread locker...but I do tend to anti-seize a lot of bolts due to the elements that a dirtbike encounters...and yup even the spark plug gets antiseize!!

[Woody R]

And I have never snapped bolts from thread locker...but I do tend to anti-seize a lot of bolts due to the elements that a dirtbike encounters...and yup even the spark plug gets antiseize!!

Sparkplug is always oily ?