help! Im beginning to hate my bike!

[Foolinjected]

stock 86 xr250 OK I put a thread on here not too long ago about putting in a clutch. well I put the clutch in and got it adjusted. I rode it up the road about 1/2 mile and came back and the clutch was slipping. so i opened the case again to make sure everything was ok. Everything looked good so i put it back together and readjusted the clutch. This time i rode about 1 mile and by the time i got back home it was slipping so bad i couldnt get it up my driveway. now i can put the bike in any gear and its like its in nuetral. when i went out it was great i had lots of power and couldnt feel any clutch slip.....is the clutch seating or something?? has anyone else had or heard of a problem like this?? what am i doing wrong?? im getting frustrated because this is my first bike and all i wanna do is ride it!

[Trailryder42]

What bike? XR 250, 400........?

What oil are you using? Nothing labeled "Energy Conserving" right?

Did you have a manual to go by when replacing it?

Don't know about the XR250, but the tabs of last fiber disc on the 400 doesn't insert into the same basket grooves as the rest of the discs. You rotate the last disc so that its tabs go in the shallow grooves/slots along the outside edge of the basket.

[Foolinjected]

sorry its an 86 xr250 and i do have the book. i put everything in there the same way it was in there before. and im using valvoline motorcycle oil conventional i think. and ive heard the some oil makes the clutch slip or stick...i forget.. but anyway i dont think that just the oil will make it slip that much will it?? I honestly dont know because its my first bike and i dont know.....

[hondapro]

I think if the basket is notched bad enough it can do that. Did you replace the springs? If the basket is notched bad enough the plates can get stuck and not engage all the way.

[Foolinjected]

I replaced the springs with tusk HD springs and the basket didnt look bad. I asked a friend at work that knows more about motorcycles than i do and he said the spring bolts may have backed out. Im going to pull the cover off today to find out for sure. I hope its just that because that would be an easy fix.

[JoeBlow Kokomo]

stock 86 xr250 OK I put a thread on here not too long ago about putting in a clutch. well I put the clutch in and got it adjusted. I rode it up the road about 1/2 mile and came back and the clutch was slipping. so i opened the case again to make sure everything was ok. Everything looked good so i put it back together and readjusted the clutch. This time i rode about 1 mile and by the time i got back home it was slipping so bad i couldnt get it up my driveway. now i can put the bike in any gear and its like its in nuetral. when i went out it was great i had lots of power and couldnt feel any clutch slip.....is the clutch seating or something?? has anyone else had or heard of a problem like this?? what am i doing wrong?? im getting frustrated because this is my first bike and all i wanna do is ride it!

Relax, you can't buy a 24 year old bike and expect it to be perfect without someone putting a little work into it.

If you want to ride it and forget it, buy a 2000+.

Put a little TLC into that old bike and it won't likely let you down in the future.

[Piney Woods]

I still think you installed the clutch wrong. I suggest taking EVERYTHING out of the basket out , seperate the fibers and metals. Inspect every disc to ck for damage. Get a SHOP manual and be very sure you reinstall as shown. If you are not carefull it is VERY easy to do it backwards. VERY. It is almost impossible for the bolts to back out with the spring tension on them and forget about the oil. 99.9999% of the oil type worry is bs. Period. Good 25 year riding buddy did a clutch change(xr4) TWICE, complete and got about 100 miles out of the first and about 5 on the second. He was a dufus mechanic. Sold bike to another friend who removed clutch, rearranged plates and rode it for three years. CK your work, you did something WRONG.

[Kev_XR]

I agree with above posts.

Notched clutch basket or you put the plates in the wrong order.

Or

Did you soak the fiber plates in oil for 24 hours before installing them?

I put a new set of clutch plates in my 1987 XR200R.

It still slipped. The notching wasn't horrible, but enough to mess up the clutch action.

I ended up buying a used clutch basket on eBay. Problem solved.

[Foolinjected]

I put everything as the book said. I have a fiber plate first and metal plates in between ending with a fiber. Also there wont be any spring tension on the bolts when you have the clutch lever pulled. I guess the basket could be notched. Im not really sure how bad it should look. I do have an extra basket off a junk engine i guess i could try. I also did soak the plates for 24 hrs. The reason why i believe the bolts may have backed out is because the first time i took the cover off to inspect the clutch i had noticed one of the bolts were backed out halfway. at first i didnt think anything of it, just that i may have forgot to tighten it up. but i remember going 1/2 turn at a time to make sure i didnt tighten one more than another. I am going to take the cover off on monday and will let you guys know what i find.

[hondapro]

When you pull the clutch lever it puts more tension on the springs because it is pulling that plate back that the springs are pushing down so the clutch can slip. Make sure those bolts are tight enough so they don't back out. Shouldn't need to be that tight, the bolts are not very big.

[runmikeyrun]

there should be a torque setting for those bolts, find it and use it. Can you take a picture of your basket and post it on here before reassembling?

[Foolinjected]

OK I cracked it open and found that the bolts were NOT backed out. So I removed everything and inspected all the plates to make sure it was on correctly and it was. I took a pic of both baskets side by side, the one on the left is the one on the bike, it looks to me as both baskets are notched pretty bad. What do you guys think? They are both notched about the same as one another. I want to know if the notching would create the symptoms im having (full clutch action with plenty of power for about 1/4-1/2 mile of back roads testing then no clutch action at all??? like the bike is in nuetral all the time?) also if that is the case, would i be able to use a small die grinder and grind the notches out of it? Im not flowing with money but if need be i can buy a new basket i guess.

[red47403]

OK I cracked it open and found that the bolts were NOT backed out. So I removed everything and inspected all the plates to make sure it was on correctly and it was. I took a pic of both baskets side by side, the one on the left is the one on the bike, it looks to me as both baskets are notched pretty bad. What do you guys think? They are both notched about the same as one another. I want to know if the notching would create the symptoms im having (full clutch action with plenty of power for about 1/4-1/2 mile of back roads testing then no clutch action at all??? like the bike is in nuetral all the time?) also if that is the case, would i be able to use a small die grinder and grind the notches out of it? Im not flowing with money but if need be i can buy a new basket i guess.

Better let someone else chime in to confirm the symptoms... I thought notched baskets usually caused a bike to 'creep' with the clutch was pulled in with the bike in gear....

You can file down the notches. You want to take as little as possible. The looser the plates fit in the basket, the faster the basket will get notched again.

[Trailryder42]

Yeah, I think those are pretty bad. DO NOT use a die grinder. Use a flat file and just draw file them, just enough to knock the tops off those notches. I'd say file about half the notches depth. Filing them completely smooth will create too much clearance between the disc tabs and the basket fingers.

Notches like that usually cause creeping like was said earlier. They may not be the cause of your slipping, but they should be taken care of while you have it apart anyway.

it looks to me as both baskets are notched pretty bad. What do you guys think?

[JROC311]

The notches on your clutch basket are pretty bad but IMO they are NOT causing the problem you are referring to. There is something else going on.

One question is what exactly was it doing before you repaired it? Same symptoms as now?

http://www.cheapcycleparts.com/model_years/410-honda-1986-XR250R/assemblies/6045

link for parts breakdown and cheap prices for oem parts.

I would think it is either improper installation,adjustment, improper parts, or other worn parts. (not necessarily in that order)

I would suspect the pressure plate and/or the center clutch (#'s 7 and 4 on the breakdown)

Edited December 8, 2010 by JROC311
adding more opinions

[Foolinjected]

The clutch was slipping before I took it apart. The PO told me it was slipping so i bought a clutch kit with new springs. Also the PO said he put a kickstarter gearset from another xr250 in that one and i know you have to remove the clutch to access it. After that he said the clutch slipped ever since he changed the kickstarter. Right now i am just slowing down and taking the time to clean all the threads on the bolt holes and tightening everything to the proper torque and being 100% sure im putting it together correctly. (im waiting on my case cover gasket to get here, it took a beating last time i took it off). I am looking at the OEM clutch guide in that link you have JROC and i see 1 thrust washer (17) which goes behind the clutch center (4). I also see a regular washer (19) that goes in front of it. I have 2 thrust washers and 1 regular washer. Anyone that has ever taken apart their xr250 have 2 thrust washers? The way i took it apart was the way i put it together which had both thrust washers behind the clutch center. Im so close, i know it cant be something big because if it was something major it either wouldnt let me go into gear or would be in nuetral all the time (i would think) but i ride for about 1/2 mile with the clutch operating like its supposed to then it slips like im in nuetral, i would think its either an assembly problem or adjustment... maybe has something to do with the 2 thrust washers. someone please enlighten me on that.....?

[JROC311]

AH HA. SO it is improper installation just not by you by the PO. Maybe sinse he put used parts From two bikes to make one work he put some "extra" parts in there.

If you have two thrust washers (17) together behind the center clutch I would think that would cause the problem you are having. To much space in between the center clutch and the pressure plate would minimize your clamping force.

I would take one out and try it and also look at the diagram closely of the clutch and kickstarter assy to make sure everything else he may have done is correct.

[ramz]

The way i took it apart was the way i put it together which had both thrust washers behind the clutch center.

Honda NEVER stacks washers; the PO did it. The extra washer is probably the one from the kickstart assembly. Don't ask me how I know ?

PS Chapter 8 in the Service Manual shows pictures of all the washers in the clutch and kickstart assemblies. If you look carefully, you may be able to figure out which ones go where. I was able to see differences between the 3 washers I looked at...