05 450r Desert Racing MELTDOWN, tranny question

So, heres the story...

We were racing the Vegas to Reno race back in august, and around RM 200, the Balancer seal went out and the engine started pumping the trans oil over to the engine side. My teammate pulled into the pit with the bike making that squeeling noise coming from the clutch when it has no oil in it.

We replaced the clutch at the pit, and tipped the bike to the left and drained the excess oil, and then we added trans oil.

We went from pit to pit with a turkey baster taking oil out of the engine and putting it into the tranny. It worked. the oil was like water. we made it about another 200 miles, and then the TRAILTECH TEMP SENSOR melted!!!! and we lost all of our water. This was all while the bike was still going. The rider had not seen any steam from the water, so he had no idea that it was just being pumped out. Eventually the bike just died without any crazy noises or anything like that. it didnt seaze.

The bike can be kicked over but there is no spark. Im guessing something down at the stator melted causing the bike to loose spark.

There was oil still in the tranny side, about half full.

I am about to tear down the engine and do a complete rebuild, But i want to know first if anybody has any advice on the transmission. I dont think it was run dry except for that first section before we replaced the clutch.

Is my tranny going to look bad from the excess heat? would it be wise to get that ISF process done to the gears? or just inspect them and throw em back in.

I cant find a straight answer as to how long these transmissions can last without oil. I just want to know how bad its gonna look so i dont waste time with not buying a new trans right away.

And another thought, the water didnt boil over before the temp sensor melted.... so watch out.

So, heres the story...

We were racing the Vegas to Reno race back in august, and around RM 200, the Balancer seal went out and the engine started pumping the trans oil over to the engine side. My teammate pulled into the pit with the bike making that squeeling noise coming from the clutch when it has no oil in it.

We replaced the clutch at the pit, and tipped the bike to the left and drained the excess oil, and then we added trans oil.

We went from pit to pit with a turkey baster taking oil out of the engine and putting it into the tranny. It worked. the oil was like water. we made it about another 200 miles, and then the TRAILTECH TEMP SENSOR melted!!!! and we lost all of our water. This was all while the bike was still going. The rider had not seen any steam from the water, so he had no idea that it was just being pumped out. Eventually the bike just died without any crazy noises or anything like that. it didnt seaze.

The bike can be kicked over but there is no spark. Im guessing something down at the stator melted causing the bike to loose spark.

There was oil still in the tranny side, about half full.

I am about to tear down the engine and do a complete rebuild, But i want to know first if anybody has any advice on the transmission. I dont think it was run dry except for that first section before we replaced the clutch.

Is my tranny going to look bad from the excess heat? would it be wise to get that ISF process done to the gears? or just inspect them and throw em back in.

I cant find a straight answer as to how long these transmissions can last without oil. I just want to know how bad its gonna look so i dont waste time with not buying a new trans right away.

And another thought, the water didnt boil over before the temp sensor melted.... so watch out.

Youre asking questions before you even take the thing apart?

Just take it apart. Its an hour.

Youre asking how long the trans will run without oil like there's some sort of spec on it.

"If the trans is run without oil for more than 123.2 feet, the transmission should be entirely replaced" Is that the kind of thing your looking for?

Regarding the spark, Id bet the stator is covered in iron debris. Check that first.

im really just asking, for peoples experience, how have transmissions ended up after oil loss like this? i thot a quick post would save me time if people say the tranny is fubar'ed. when working on a race bike like this, you dont just 'take it apart'. you analyze everything when you do a tear down because the bikes gotta go a lot further than just around a track.

My point is, it might be toast, it might not. You wont really know until you get the thing apart and look.

You really cant order parts until you know what you need anyway. And in these kinds of thing, no two of these things ever come out the same.

Ive read posts where they noticed the trans was dry after an hour or so, they fixed the seals and put oil in it and it was fine. Then there are guys that just run practice and the trans locks up completely...

So ya never really know. Ya just gotta tear it down and look.

What kind of bike?

Woops, its a 05 crf450r

Just open it up and take a look. You can replace any tired bearings and seals at that time. Inspect the tranny parts as described in the manual and if they are look okay, put it back together, or go for a wide ratio set while you have it apart.

What front and rear sprocket size did you run for that race?

Andrew

I would be replacing every case bearing to be on the safe side. Chances are you'll have some "bluing" on the counter and mainshafts (especially on the clutch basket end) but they should be fine though you should check for straightness. You may have some discoloration on the gears also but unless the dogs are rounded again, you should be fine. I'd replace the shift forks as the ends are stationary in the gear grooves as the gears spin and with little to no trans oil the ends of the forks could possibly warp.

As Shawn said, there may not be anything definitive in there screaming "Replace Me"! but I would at the very least replace all bearings.

We ran 14 48 gearing, and with a heavier flywheel, it was pretty rad.

Thanks captain. Does anyone have any input on isptropic finishing? Would that be a good idea if the gears arnt bad

All I can say is wow. Thats a crazy story, Ive never heard of a bike going through all that and not seizing. Any idea what temp the sensor melted at? That could give you a good idea of what parts might suffer heat damage

hmm...a while back i was going to get my transmission parts coated in diamond like carbon (DLC). While i was talking to carbon raptor, i asked them how long would my tranny/clutch would last in the case i lost all my oil. they said the transmission should run another 15-20 minutes with no damage at all. i would imagine a stock tranny wouldnt last quite as long......... better check the specs on those gears man. there could be some damage.

BTW thats one hell of a engine to not seize after all of that?? no tranny oil and no coolant?? in the desert????! wow:shocked:

I have no idea what temp it was at. I wasnt looking at the computer when it melted. But i have had the water boil over with that same kinda temp sensor in there, and it didnt melt then.

It wasnt totally dry when it quit, it still had oil in it. It was just that first section before we put a new clutch in when it was totally dry. If i sent the gears out to get isotropic finishing, they would spec them as well, correct?

No idea, you would have to ask the company doing the work if they did that or not. You should shoot harrperf a pm asking about coatings and such he really knows his stuff when it comes to coatings and who to talk to type of questions.

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