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IT465 Regulator/Rectifier questions

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Here are my emails with tech support on this issue- i am very confused about this floating ground thing...

"I bought regulator rectifier for this bike- I have a dualsport lighting kit from RM atv and a 3w LED headlight- polisport.

Question about 2 yellow wires from r/r- do they both connect to the one free wire from stator? Or just one?"

their reply:

"If you only have one lighting lead coming out of your stator then it is not a floated ground system. Without a floated ground you cannot produce DC power which means that reg/rec does you no good. Sorry."

My response:

"There is one free one but not sure if there is a second one that is also a lighting lead- how do I find out? Factory wiring diagram?

I need to find a way to make this system work since everything is installed and ready to wire up and the led operate on dc I understand..."

Their reply:

"You would need the wiring diagram to find out but on almost all of those older bikes that I have dealt with if they did not come with a battery then they will not be set up to create DC power. And yes LED lights should be run off of DC power."

This does not sound right to me. Confused...

Please help!

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OK, lotta questions and info there:

My son has an '84 IT490 and we've just done exactly what it looks like you're wanting to do, so my IT-specific comments are based on his 490. My AC/DC comments are applicable to any bike.

His final answer is mostly correct - the IT's stock configuration generates AC current - suitable for powering regular light bulbs (which don't care if the current is AC or DC), but not suitable for charging a battery.

The IT's did, indeed, have a non-floating ground in their lighting coils. This means that one end of the stator winding is connected to ground (usually right inside the stator core) and the other end comes out on a single wire.

A 'floating ground' system means that neither end of the stator winding is connected to ground. In those systems, two wires come out of the stator. In those systems, one stator wire connects to one input of the rectifier and the second wire connects to the other input of the rectifier. There are two outputs from the rectifier - one is (+) and connects to the battery (+) and the other is (-) and connects to the battery (-) or directly to chassis ground.

With two wires input to the rectifier, you wind up with what is called "full-wave" rectification. That is, the positive half of the AC sine wave is allowed to pass, and the negative half of the AC sine wave is "flipped over" and also allowed to pass. This is your DC output.

With only one wire connected to the rectifier, you wind up with what is called "half-wave" rectification. That is, the positive half of the AC sine wave is allowed to pass, but the negative half of the AC sine wave is blocked. This 'half on - half off" output can still be connected to the battery, but you will have essentially cut the stator's charging output in half.

So, it might not charge whatever battery you're wanting it to charge. On the other hand, it SHOULD generate enough watts to slow down the battery loss. So, it'd be not quite a "total-loss" system, but a "slowed-loss" system. And, if you kept the RPMs up, it'd last even longer. Long enough, for example, that one could ride for a few hours or more with lights on, etc. and have no issues. Long enough for most street rides on an IT465, especially if it was only a 35-watt headlight and a few LEDs. Then, if the battery was slowly discharging over the ride, one could hook up a trickle charger overnight and be good to go again the next day.

This is exactly what we did on my son's 490 and so far he's put several hundred miles on the beast with no issues at all. I think his longest ride was about 60 or 70 miles one day, and everything was still working fine at the end. He DOES hook up the trickle charger, but he hasn't 'experimented' with trying to see just how long the battery would last if he didn't. Fortunately, the IT's ignition is not dependant on the battery, so even if the battery did drain, one could limp home (as long as it wasn't dark...) with no real problems (except maybe no brake light). We DID do some crude checks when we first got it all hooked up - with engine not running, the battery voltage was 12.5 v or so with all lights on. With the engine running and spun up pretty good (maybe half-way?), the battery voltage read in the 12.65 range, so I'm convinced our half-wave charging circuit was doing SOMETHING...

And finally, LEDs are, as the acronym means "Light-Emitting Diodes". So, a diode conducts (and emits light) when current flows in the one direction only. So, when hooked to properly-oriented DC, the LED conducts and emits light. But think; AC current is reversing itself at however-many-cycles per second - forward/reverse/forward/reverse, etc. If one hooked a diode to AC, it would conduct, then not conduct, then conduct, then not, etc. So, an LED hooked to AC would light, not light, light, not light, etc. Now, if those cycles were slow enough, the LED would appear to flicker. But, I believe that if the AC cycles were fast enough, say, like at a frequency associated with a motorcycle alternator spinning at 4000 rpms, I suspect that an LED would "flicker" so fast as to be not noticeable to yer eye.

Umm.... and that's all I have to say about that. :thumbsup:

Kirk

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yeah what he said :thumbsup: an IT lighting system as well as the late 80's early 90's wr's should all be very similar in design. A simple single lighting coil that has a chassis ground on one side and a single wire on the other that you run however you need for hi/low headlamp,taillamp,&brake light and all using the chassis as a common. If you need and want the rectifier and wish to "float the ground" all you have to do is isolate which coil is your lighting coil cut the eyelet off that is secured to the stator plate and solder a wire the same length and thickness as the original single wire is to the end of the coil that you just cut the eyelet off. Connect the two wires off of the lighting coil to the two yellow wires coming out of the rectifier. now the red and black leads will be your positive and negative dc power.

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That is a ton of great info! I have a tiny 1ah battery so wont take much to charge it. and the headlight only is 3w, and 6w on hi beam. so just hooking to one wire of the R/R may work?

or it appears plan b is mod the stator as described?

thanks again!!!

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I'd go with just the one wire hookup to your rectifier.

3 watts and 6 watts? Where did you get a headlight bulb so small?? I mean, a standard taillight bulb is ~ 7 watts with a brake light filament of ~23 watts.

Good luck with it all!

Kirk

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I'd go with just the one wire hookup to your rectifier.

3 watts and 6 watts? Where did you get a headlight bulb so small?? I mean, a standard taillight bulb is ~ 7 watts with a brake light filament of ~23 watts.

Good luck with it all!

Kirk

it is LED

3w LED output = 30 watts incandescent output in lumens, more or less. very efficient. the lights in the tusk dualsport kit are all LED too. a tiny 1ah battery runs the tail and brake and turns for 3+ hours in total loss mode.

headlight is polisport. just started importing this unit in june. only available through rockymountainatv as of September, maybe more importers now.

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