Jump to content
Greg@RME

Need some help, no spark from a DR650

Recommended Posts

Hey guys, I'm not very active on Thumper Talk, much more of a lurker here. There's great tech though and I'm hoping I can tap into some of that knowledge. Let me preface this by saying that I strongly dislike wiring/electrical work... even more so when their are problems.

Here's the situation, I tore apart my 2007 DR650 in order to add some upgrades, including RMZ forks, Highway Dirtbike handguards and a TrailTech Vapor.

While I was doing these things, I decided to remove the ignition switch from the DR upper triple clamp. I drilled out the tamper-resistant bolts on the drill press, then decided to see if I could strip the keyed switch down even further. I realized I was probably doing something I shouldn't, but I went ahead anyway. Long story short, I went too far and wasn't able to re-assemble the key switch. I was alright with that, since I kind of liked the idea of a push-button ignition system, instead of the key switch.

Here's what I think happened.... I cut the wires at the key switch and was messing with the wires, before consulting the wiring manual. I think I crossed some ground wires with the main power wires and shorted something out. I could be wrong, but that's my best guess at this point. The fuses are good, power seems to be where it needs to be.

After I got the bike somewhat back together, I wired up the push-button ignition using the following diagram and tried to start it. -

http://electricwiringdiagram.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/1998-dr650-suzuki-wiring-diagram-dual-sport.gif

On the bottom, just left of center, is the ignition switch layout. If I tie together the Red/Orange, Orange-Yellow/Black-White and Brown/Grey, I get power to the starter, headlight, blinkers, etc. Most everything works like it should, except I'm not getting any spark while turning over the bike. I checked the power to the CDI and it has power, so I thought it was the CDI. I found a good cheap one on Advrider, so picked it up and tried it out, with no luck. The only thing I haven't really checked is the coil pack, so that might be the cause, but I'd like to be sure before just buying more parts.

I don't really want to throw any more parts at it without having an actual diagnosis. If I can't figure this out, the next step is hauling the bike to the Suzuki dealer, which I really don't want to do. I 'broke' it, should be able to fix it.

I have a DR650 service manual and while it helps, it leaves out some specific information when it comes to diagnosing a spark issue. Any help?

Edited by Greg@RME
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your logic of combining the three pairs of wires at the ignition switch seems correct. Though I would expect a fuse to blow before anything else shorted out. Double check/override the fail safes (side-stand, clutch, engine kill).

I had a neutral switch go out on my old Honda Recon while trail riding and was able to force the starter to engage but it wouldn't get any spark. I have since fixed this with a manual override but it took me a while to figure it out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

dont what 2 say about the spark but can you tell some more about the rmz front end i am doing the same mod how did it go and do U have any pix.

thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Your logic of combining the three pairs of wires at the ignition switch seems correct. Though I would expect a fuse to blow before anything else shorted out. Double check/override the fail safes (side-stand, clutch, engine kill).

I had a neutral switch go out on my old Honda Recon while trail riding and was able to force the starter to engage but it wouldn't get any spark. I have since fixed this with a manual override but it took me a while to figure it out.

I've disabled (bypassed) most of the fail-safes, like the center stand switch, the clutch switch, etc. The engine kill won't let the bike turn over any how, so I believe it's working how it should.

I really need to find the proper way to test the coils, wish I had a DR650 near by to borrow parts from!

Thank for the idea about the neutral over ride and the no spark after bypassing it, I'll see what I can find.

dont what 2 say about the spark but can you tell some more about the rmz front end i am doing the same mod how did it go and do U have any pix.

thanks

I have all kinds of pics and a bit of a build thread on my website. The thread kind of rambles, talking about engine mods, etc. But it's fairly complete up to where I'm at now. Here's the link- http://www.rme4x4.com/showthread.php?t=79140

And a teaser shot from the build-

1117500482_ZyHZf-M.jpg

I used RMZ forks and both RMZ upper and lower triple clamps and DRZ400SM headlight brackets. The RMZ triples share the same upper and lower bearings as the DR, so fitting the fork is easy enough. It's every thing else that's a pain in the ass! There's a lot to it, especially with upgrading bars & hand guards, then adding the Vapor and the looming wiring issue. I have lost my steering lock and I'm alright with that.

Edited by Greg@RME
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems I read that, when you remove the ignition switch assembly, a 100 ohm resistor needs to be added somewhere.

Problem is: I'm not sure what ohm resistor (100 is a guess), or a diode somewhere, or some other electrical 'thingy' somewhere else. There's only one; but one what? :smirk:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just started to look at the wiring diagram, I believe you have power at the CDI. Have you checked the wire O/Y and B have continunity to earth from where they plug into the CDI?

Will keep looking

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not that the 650 is the same but on my old DR350SE, I removed the ignition when adding an aftermarket top clamp and just cut the plug in wire to the ignition and then spliced the wires. I just pulled the plug from the ignition side out and that was my key. I don't know why you would need a resistor.

So the starter turns but you are not getting spark?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That I'm aware of there are no resistors in the stock ignition switch... The Orange w/yellow stripe wire is the CDI ground point. It connects to the main harness ground (Black w/white strip wire) through a set of contacts in the ignition switch. If you've somehow connected 12v hot power to this wire it is possible you've let all the smoke out of your CDI box. :smirk:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Seems I read that, when you remove the ignition switch assembly, a 100 ohm resistor needs to be added somewhere.

Problem is: I'm not sure what ohm resistor (100 is a guess), or a diode somewhere, or some other electrical 'thingy' somewhere else. There's only one; but one what? :smirk:

Where are you seeing the resistor, in the wiring diagram?

Just started to look at the wiring diagram, I believe you have power at the CDI. Have you checked the wire O/Y and B have continunity to earth from where they plug into the CDI?

Will keep looking

Yes I have, and yes they do.

Not that the 650 is the same but on my old DR350SE, I removed the ignition when adding an aftermarket top clamp and just cut the plug in wire to the ignition and then spliced the wires. I just pulled the plug from the ignition side out and that was my key. I don't know why you would need a resistor.

So the starter turns but you are not getting spark?

Correct, the starter turns the bike over like normal, without any spark.

That I'm aware of there are no resistors in the stock ignition switch... The Orange w/yellow stripe wire is the CDI ground point. It connects to the main harness ground (Black w/white strip wire) through a set of contacts in the ignition switch. If you've somehow connected 12v hot power to this wire it is possible you've let all the smoke out of your CDI box. B)

I'd think the wiring diagram would indicate a resistor, but I could be wrong.

Here's the thing, I bought a used CDI box (from brianwheelies, above) and plugged it in, with the same result, no spark.

I've been a bit burned out on the bike, so I haven't done much... I did buy a working, used coil off ebay. It should be arriving pretty soon and I'll throw it on.

I really hate to throw parts at a problem, but I'm thinking the 2 biggest culprits could be either the CDI or the coil. If it's not either of those, then I'm SOL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Greg is there any way you can test the cdi units on another dr in your area?

Possibly, I sold my old '05 DR to a semi-local guy. He's about an hour away, I bet he'd be willing to let me swap parts if I asked.

Hopefully my coil will arrive before the weekend and I can either get it running or rule that out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, I don't see the resistor on the Suzuki wiring diagram either.

Unfortunately my source was somewhere in the 43,000+ DR650 thread at ADVrider. :smirk:

If you haven't cut off the wiring harness connector on the bike, and if your source will let you swap parts, you could try his ignition switch. It's a safe swap, nothing to blow up, like a CDI.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

According to my notes this is the procedure to remove the ignition switch. I have not personally tried this and don't remember the source so ymmv, use at own risk, etc.

Series a 100 ohm ¼ watt 5% resistor between the orange w/ yellow stripe and the black w/ white stripe. Series a key or toggle switch between the red and the orange or just splice together. Splice the grey and brown together.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No, I don't see the resistor on the Suzuki wiring diagram either.

Unfortunately my source was somewhere in the 43,000+ DR650 thread at ADVrider. B)

If you haven't cut off the wiring harness connector on the bike, and if your source will let you swap parts, you could try his ignition switch. It's a safe swap, nothing to blow up, like a CDI.

I left the plug for the ignition switch there, as a back-up. The problem with swapping parts is that the switch is mounted to the upper triple clamp and it's bolted using anti-taper bolts. That's why I had to drill mine out on the drill press! I don't think anyone is going to let me tear their bike down to the point of pulling off the upper triple clamp, just to try get mine running.

I have looked for a used ignition switch for awhile now, but they're not cheap... and I am.

According to my notes this is the procedure to remove the ignition switch. I have not personally tried this and don't remember the source so ymmv, use at own risk, etc.

Series a 100 ohm ¼ watt 5% resistor between the orange w/ yellow stripe and the black w/ white stripe. Series a key or toggle switch between the red and the orange or just splice together. Splice the grey and brown together.

:smirk: It's not like I'm going to kill it any worse!

Thanks for the info, I think I'll try that first before looking for another key switch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Much thanks to Craig in Denver and JayHawk, you guys nailed it with the resistor! :thumbsup:

All I needed was a 100 ohm ¼ watt 5% resistor between the Orange/Yellow and the Black/White. I tied the Brown & Gray together, then put a switch between the Red & Orange, which go to the main power switch. I soldered all the connections, then covered them with heat shrink tubing and put the stock wiring sleeve back over everything. Everything now works like it should!

Huge thanks to everyone that contributed and added their advice, I really appreciate all the help!

Here's some pics of what I did.-

1165792500_unGDm-M.jpg

1165792496_fhwE6-M.jpg

1165792584_3N8mJ-M.jpg

1165792612_DSJBU-M.jpg

And the bike on the first ride out, with new RMZ forks, Highway Dirt Bike hand guards and the TrailTech Vapor!

1165792891_oLyVz-M.jpg

1165792922_bPNFm-M.jpg

1165792740_aMsXd-M.jpg

1165792793_qw2BV-M.jpg

Edited by Greg@RME
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Greg:

Thanks for the update and pics of the solution. :thumbsup: Sometimes the cobwebs contain useable information. Hopefully I'll be able to find this next time; as opposed to 'somewhere in the 40,000 posts of the DR650 thread'. :ride:

JayHawk:

Thanks for the specifics. :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Congrats on getting the bike running, it looks great!

So how do you like the vapor? I've seriously considered getting one...just wish the tach would max out at 8k. Does it update quickly or does it lag behind the engine when you crank on the throttle?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Greg:

Thanks for the update and pics of the solution. :thumbsup: Sometimes the cobwebs contain useable information. Hopefully I'll be able to find this next time; as opposed to 'somewhere in the 40,000 posts of the DR650 thread'. :ride:

JayHawk:

Thanks for the specifics. :lol:

Not a problem, I figured since I was so lost, I'd put together some decent tech in case anyone else comes across this in the future!

Congrats on getting the bike running, it looks great!

So how do you like the vapor? I've seriously considered getting one...just wish the tach would max out at 8k. Does it update quickly or does it lag behind the engine when you crank on the throttle?

Thanks!

So far so good, but honestly I just got the bike out of the garage last night and was only able to ride a handful of miles and haven't spent too much time playing with it. The speedo is dead on when compared to the GPS and I think the engine temp sensor will be nice when it gets hot out and I'm flogging the bike in deep sand.

The tach seems spot on, no real lag to talk about. I do agree with you about the 8k limit, it would be nice! But it's a universal product, so I guess you just have to deal with what you have.

Glad it all worked out for you, the bike looks great.

Thanks JayHawk, I'm glad we got it figured out... I was getting pretty frustrated, going over everything, wondering if I should put all the electrical back to 'stock'. Glad it didn't get that far!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you given any thought to heat dissipation on the resistor? I guess its only 100 ohm/0.25 watt, but it would suck to have it go out on the trail and lose spark. You might want to consider running two insulated connectors out of the end of your wiring bundle and create a separate jumper wire with a resistor between the terminals that way you can swap it out easily if it goes bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Reply with:


×