rider or bike set up

[mike33333]

Hi all

I have a 2010 wr250f with all the free mods + exhaust and jet kit and it runs good so no problems there except when i have to go through deep soft sand

then the problems hit and its killing me (head first into the sand at speed a few to many times now)

it tends to be the tracks were 4x4 have been through most but its happens on single tracks as well as the frount starts to slap from side to side and if i back off the power it digs in and off i go and the last time at the weekend i could not get the bars to steady out again still holding the power on and off i went at about 80ks+ a hour (good job i have a neck brace on but i am pushing my luck each time it happens)

rider weight 85kilo suspension as per yam settings apart from frount comp damp 2 clicks softer at 12 clicks

sag at 100mill, tyres --frount dunlop d908f came with the bike

rear mt43 trials tyre

no problems on dirt or hard sand its just in deep sand were i suck and its spoiling the ride as round here just about every ride has some deep sand

Thanks Mike

[Supermess]

Well the only thing I think you can do is lean back on the back tire and stay on the gas. All the times I have ridden sand if you slow down too quickly it will bury that front tire. The other suggestion would be to get a steering damper but I think the real problem is u just need to have your weight back a little farther and let the front float on top of the sand

[dgcars]

Don't know how tall you are, but yeah, weight back & maybe rake the bars with a set of risers so you aren't over the front as much.

I'm 84kg and put the Phase4 DIY kit in....yeeeooow!

[barns19]

sit back on the seat a little. keep the throttle pinned. dont turn with the front, sit at the back keep the power on and lean. you have to steer with the back of the bike in sand. make sure all you suspension clickers are in the normal range

[YamaLink]

It could be one of the following.....

Rider technique: try to not be so on-off with the throttle and brake. Get on top of the sand and keep the front end lighter. This does not mean going wide open or crazy fast but you don't want the wheels to get the chance to dive into the sand.

Where are your forks set at in the triple clamps? Too high up and the bike will oversteer.

I usually see riders having issues in sand when it's a combination of the above but more often it is going in too slow, gassing it too hard, hitting the brakes and then fighting the bars. Ride it like mud: in a higher gear, smooth and with turns and movements that are in sweeping arcs instead of sharp and quick.

[oldnbold]

It could be one of the following.....

Rider technique: try to not be so on-off with the throttle and brake. Get on top of the sand and keep the front end lighter. This does not mean going wide open or crazy fast but you don't want the wheels to get the chance to dive into the sand.

Where are your forks set at in the triple clamps? Too high up and the bike will oversteer.

I usually see riders having issues in sand when it's a combination of the above but more often it is going in too slow, gassing it too hard, hitting the brakes and then fighting the bars. Ride it like mud: in a higher gear, smooth and with turns and movements that are in sweeping arcs instead of sharp and quick.

+1 on the above advice.

You might also try to make some setting adjustments. From your description it sounds like the weight bias of your setup is too far forward over weighting the front tire.

1st off, deep sand is a bitch. You have to be on top of the sand, not plowing thru it so the following setup assumes you are on the gas in at least 3rd gear or at the least a wound out 2nd gear.

change your sag to 105mm

slide your forks down in the clamps till they are flush with top clamp

slow your clickers down a bunch. On the forks, turn them in 4-6 clicks, rebound 3-5 clicks

shock, turn the low speed comp in 3-5 clicks, rebound 2-4 clicks, high speed comp 1/8- 1/4 turn.

technique: stopping/slowing in sand is like someone threw an anchor out so you need to change your braking points to a much later than usual point thus allowing you to maintain enough speed thru the corner to still stay on top of the sand. As previously stated, you need to also change your lines to a much more flowing and arcing line, kinda more like a snow skier would use to arc his way down a slope. Lines that have you racing from inside line/hard braking/then race to another inside line will ruin your speed/momentum. Think outside line....outside line... or at least a very flowing smooth line. If your on a quad trail, use the outside berm and stay up on the wall of the berm.

good luck. when you do it right and the setup is on, you can fly thru the sand. When all is off, deep sand sucks.

[Swede73]

I had that same front tire and had problems.

[Stu2]

Its more your bike than you, yur forks are too soft causing this problem, for sand you need a stiffer setting, but I would say overall the Wr is very soft so A revalve would be good

[Tammy63]

I just did a 1 on 1 class with Rich Lafferty Racing School. He took me in deep NJ sugar sand. We had to go into a right turn and then 200+ yrd of this shit.. He sat up on the tank and had it in 3rd with about 1/4 throttle and did not go more the 6in off his line... He was sitting down. Told me to do it and I was all over the place it was so sad.. I've never seen anyone hold a line like that in that deep of sand riding the way he did but he told me that is the right way to do it and Rich is a AA rider...

Now I can get up on top of the sand and do ok at keeping a so so line but I'm on the throttle all the way. The way Rich L did it he was faster going slower and made it look so easy as if he was riding on a lite sand road..

I think you just need to play around and see what works best for you. I know this much if your going to get good at it you need to ride it more then you care to LOL... I was always told if there is some part of a trail you don't like to ride, ride that part the most.. I can't stand sand love the rocks tho...

[mike33333]

+1 on the above advice.

You might also try to make some setting adjustments. From your description it sounds like the weight bias of your setup is too far forward over weighting the front tire.

1st off, deep sand is a bitch. You have to be on top of the sand, not plowing thru it so the following setup assumes you are on the gas in at least 3rd gear or at the least a wound out 2nd gear.

change your sag to 105mm

slide your forks down in the clamps till they are flush with top clamp

slow your clickers down a bunch. On the forks, turn them in 4-6 clicks, rebound 3-5 clicks

shock, turn the low speed comp in 3-5 clicks, rebound 2-4 clicks, high speed comp 1/8- 1/4 turn.

technique: stopping/slowing in sand is like someone threw an anchor out so you need to change your braking points to a much later than usual point thus allowing you to maintain enough speed thru the corner to still stay on top of the sand. As previously stated, you need to also change your lines to a much more flowing and arcing line, kinda more like a snow skier would use to arc his way down a slope. Lines that have you racing from inside line/hard braking/then race to another inside line will ruin your speed/momentum. Think outside line....outside line... or at least a very flowing smooth line. If your on a quad trail, use the outside berm and stay up on the wall of the berm.

good luck. when you do it right and the setup is on, you can fly thru the sand. When all is off, deep sand sucks.

most times i crashed i was in 3rd or 4th gear and not going slow but i still got head shake

on your set up for the clickers you mean turn in from the standard setting 4-6 clicks for the frount ie standard is 10 clicks out so turn in 4 clicks to make it 6

i will swap the frount tyre and alter set up of the frount and rear shocks, sag and my body position on the bike and see if i can beat the sand for once

thanks to all

[oldnbold]

most times i crashed i was in 3rd or 4th gear and not going slow but i still got head shake

on your set up for the clickers you mean turn in from the standard setting 4-6 clicks for the frount ie standard is 10 clicks out so turn in 4 clicks to make it 6

i will swap the frount tyre and alter set up of the frount and rear shocks, sag and my body position on the bike and see if i can beat the sand for once

thanks to all

yes... from 10 to 4 clicks is correct. When searching for settings, make large changes as small 1 or 2 clicks are hard to tell the difference. Large changes will make the problem either better or a whole lot worse. That way you know you're either going in the right direction or the wrong.

[hdm210]

def need to make the wheelbase longer to unweigh the front end. i ride deep sand like whoops. bum is almost on the fender and just try and skim the front tire. steer with your legs and counter steer like your riding a street bike

[dgcars]

def need to make the wheelbase longer to unweigh the front end. i ride deep sand like whoops. bum is almost on the fender and just try and skim the front tire. steer with your legs and counter steer like your riding a street bike

Making the wheelbase longer will weight up the front, not make it lighter.