newest lifepo batteries, shorai...?

[ofgofg]

A couple questions about the new lithium motorcycle batteries? First, do these new batteries come equipped with charging and or balancing circuits built in? If not, then do they charge from the motorcycle charging circuit, or do they depend on plug in maintaining? Reason for asking is because I am very familiar with lithium batteries for rc airplane use. The rc batteries require a very specific charger type. None of the motorcycle battery manufacturers mention any charger or balancer circuits built in. I dont see how the stock bike charging circuit can suit a lithium battery without it blowing up??

[William1]

Only one I know of that have a balancing port is the Shorai. They state that unless you run the battery way down, you will probably never have to balance the battery.

These batteries are slightly different than the RC ones in that they do not require a charge circuit. Most bikes at best output 14.5 volts, the Lipos are (I think) 13.6 Vs. 12.8 for lead acid. Also the charge rate from most bikes is well under tha max charge rate for a LiPo.

Take a look at the Shorai and TurnTech websites. Both appear to post very honest information. There are a few other compaines in the game but every one grossly overcharges and provides terribly misleading information.

[XR650L_Dave]

Ha! I pre-ordered my shorai march 30, was supposed to be available end of this month.

Now it looks like the end of may, and my decade old batt is D-E-D.

I should have just bought a regular battery.

Dave

[ofgofg]

Thanks for the info on the shorai. However,, even the Lifepo4 cells that are being used in motorcycle batteries have in the past required a special charge circuit for other uses. There was a battery on ebay that used the lifepo cells that also advertized a charge circuit built into the top. Unfortunately, this battery was over 300 usd shipped from Australia!

[William1]

They do need the special charge if you run them all the way down all the time. You do not do this on a bike.

Almost all of the insane priced LiPos are a rip off. They are taking advantage of people. New technology, weight savings, better shelf life and storage life, full power until just before they are flat. So a lot of these places see customer and screw them. A few like TurnTech and Shorai, charge a fair price, give great customer service. The owner of TurnTech is a TT regular. I have talked to him a few times, he is a great guy. Probably the best source to qualm your fears. PM him.

Most use A123 cells, same as many in the RC world use, most power tools too. Shoria uses flat cells (I do not recall the specifics)

These have been used on bikes nearly two years now and there have been no problems I am aware of. I have a Shorai on my WR.

[MrBlahh]

some of them were buying reject power tool packs and salvaging the cells

[William1]

some of them were buying reject power tool packs and salvaging the cells

Somehow, that does not surprise me. Break the pack up, hopefully test the cells, get the good ones, solder them up, shrink wrap, put on a $350 price tag and sell them on Ebay. PT Barnum is still right. What a way to make $325 profit....

[XR650L_Dave]

I groused on shorai's website about the delayed delivery and received a response from their operations manager within two hours. That's pretty good in my book.

Mid-may.

Dave

[Chas_M]

I have had excellent results for almost 3 years with a 5 Ah TurnTech Li battery in my '08 KTM (HTR) 350 XCF-W. Since the TurnTech battery wouldn't quite fit my '09 Beta 570 RS, I went to a Shorai Li battery which thus far has been doing an excellent job of cranking over the big bore high compression engine.

[ofgofg]

So, I can basically solder up a pack of a123 cells, and just use them with not worries? If so, I can do that easy and cheap.

[seabass152]

Any real world info on the Ballistic battery?

[William1]

So, I can basically solder up a pack of a123 cells, and just use them with not worries? If so, I can do that easy and cheap.

Pretty much. But if possible, make sure the frst charge, the batteries are balanced. If not, the life of the back will be severely diminished and you run the risk of a catastrophy from trying to charge it. What happens is one or more cells can be fully charged, others not. You try to 'force a full charge' on the pack. Those that are already fully charged, get overcharged and can explode. Lithium fires are not good. So be careful.

Any real world info on the Ballistic battery?

Iy is just A123 cells and they are one of the places grossly over 'charging' (sorry for the pun) it. TurnTech is exactly the same battery and it more user friendly.

[ofgofg]

I got one on ebay for 167 bucks shipped. Its made of a123 cells, and boasts a built in charge/ balance circuit. Will report how well it works. Should be here in a few days.

In my experience with other forms of lithium cells (lipo) I know it is vitally important to maintain balance. These starter batteries made from a123 cells are usually made up from 4s-2p configuration, so balancing cells would seem to be literally double important.

I just can not understand how some companies do not recognize the importance of a balance circuit. The probability of cells becoming unbalance is very high. Well, they seem to be working great for a couple years now,, so what do I know!

The brand name I bought is RCE,, straight outta Taiwan,,, the world leader in lithium battery technology. I think it will be everything that all the manufacturers claim.

Will be sure to report either way though.

[MrBlahh]

it's not as important with a123 as long as they are balanced when you start

if I was paying 100+ $ for one, I would want a balance circuit, but for DIY'ers meh

[ofgofg]

I suppose it would be difficult to buy 8 loose cells that are matched well enough to make a 4s-2p pack. There are rc hobby packs in 4s2p that are made of matched cells,, but do not contain an active balance circuit,, just taps to use an external balance circuit. Price is a wash though. For the money,, if the rce pack works as intended,, its a great deal.

[MrBlahh]

people buy the dewalt power tool battery packs and pull the cells out of those

this guy is popular on the RC forums

http://epbuddy.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=7

[MrBlahh]

or something like these, I have no idea how to charge these with a balancer, when I use them with RC it's all draw off the main lines, and all charge with the balancer

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=14067

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=14074

but these only have a 30a draw, these are the AA size, not the C size

how many amps do our bikes draw at startup? Someone made a howto for the c cells, no balance charger leads

Edited May 3, 2011 by MegaDeTH

[ofgofg]

Yeah! I get all my lipo packs from hobbyking. Never tried lifepo4 in rc application though. Through some more research, it looks like as you said earlier,,, the a123 cells do not become unbalanced as easily as other forms of lithium cell. How ever,, I still think a dedicated balance circuit would ensure that the end user can crank on the battery as hard as needed but still have a balance charge to keep things working long term.

One of my bikes, a 2003 wr450,, the start motor is wearing out, the spark plug needs replaced. It always takes a few tries to get it to fire. Sometimes acts like an older Husaberg,, requiring a kick start first of the day,, then firing of with the button the rest of the day. It will be a good test for the new battery!

[William1]

or something like these, I have no idea how to charge these with a balancer, when I use them with RC it's all draw off the main lines, and all charge with the balancer

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=14067

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=14074

but these only have a 30a draw, these are the AA size, not the C size

how many amps do our bikes draw at startup? Someone made a howto for the c cells, no balance charger leads

Either Ud_Luz or Chickenhauler had a 'how to' about using a Dewalt pack. Simple to do. You just have to be careful.

Startup draw is in the area of 100 amps.

[mikesbaron]

Could one of these battery packs be used "as-is" in a 450cc dirtbike then? How about a streetbike? They seem like very, very affordable compared to the name brand companies out there that are selling them for $120 and up.

people buy the dewalt power tool battery packs and pull the cells out of those

this guy is popular on the RC forums

http://epbuddy.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=7