M12 or S12?

I just bought and mounted an M12 for the rear of my cr250. It was fresh for the first race of the season. Track was muddy with some off camber hills. Needless to say I was very unimpressed by how the tire stuck to the ground.:thumbsup: I was running 10 lbs with an hd tube. Is the S12 a much better tire? Also what about the M12 and S12 front tire?

m12 front s12 rear.one of my favorite combo,s

the MS3 rear would have been a much better mud choice in my opinion. Wide spaced knobs like the s12 rear, but bigger and taller "paddle" in the middle.

Totally agree about the S12xc front, LOVE that thing. Won't work well in hard pack due to the side knobs facing "out" more than the MS3 front, and they could chuck off if you lean with speed on the hard pack.

if you ride soft terrain go with the s12. i put 5 hare scrambles on it, then turned it around for 3 more. I dont remember what i was running before but it hooks up so much better. Id power wheelie through every gear coming out of a corner even when it was turned around..... but i need another now lol

if you ride soft terrain go with the s12. i put 5 hare scrambles on it, then turned it around for 3 more. I dont remember what i was running before but it hooks up so much better. Id power wheelie through every gear coming out of a corner even when it was turned around..... but i need another now lol

Hi ftr rida28 , in my opinion the advantage to the MS3 over the S12 rear, well, other than the larger middle row of knobs for hookin in the sand here in Florida (where you are too)... is that the "M" compound will flex more in the occasions where you do hit the hardpack and drier open field sections of the FTR races. Or the hard stuff we had on much of the course at CHipley..

Soft terrain tires have HARDER compound.. so the knobs resist flexing and drive through teh soft stuff. The medium and hard terrain tires will have softer compounds to resist chunking on the harder surfaces they are designed to be in contact with.

If ya like the S12 rear tire, wait till ya try the MS3 rear :thumbsup: It as well is bi-directional and can be flipped.. COnsidering what i pay for roadrace tires.. dirt bike tires are a bargain so i run em till the edges are no longer sharp then just replace. Have gotten very good at changing my own tires though!! LOL..

S12xc front and rear!

if you ride soft terrain go with the s12. i put 5 hare scrambles on it, then turned it around for 3 more. I dont remember what i was running before but it hooks up so much better. Id power wheelie through every gear coming out of a corner even when it was turned around..... but i need another now lol

8 HS's out of one tire :smirk:

You guys must not have alot of rocks.....

How long are your races?

I'm really, really lucky if I could get two 3hr races and a few practise rides out of one tire.

I really like the Pirelli MT16 rear and Scorpion front. They work waaaay better than the s12 in the rocks and Ohio mud. The S12 is ok if you're using a bib instert but I feel they like to "roll" when you lean the bike over if using just a hd tube. Thinner sidewall than the Pirelli.

I wouldn't be using a s12 if I was in a lot of rocks and mud, it's a soft terrain tire.

I love the way a S12 rear hooks up, but they don't last long where I ride 1-2 races and its starting to chunk. I used to run the S12 front and M12 rear, to me the m12 felt good in straights but always tried to slide out from under me in turns. I tried some of the MS3's last year and just have ordered another set! They are exceptional!

I wouldn't be using a s12 if I was in a lot of rocks and mud, it's a soft terrain tire.

You wouldn't use a soft terrain tire in the mud?

You wouldn't use a soft terrain tire in the mud?

Opinions on s12 aside, do you believe that any tire that's labeled as soft terrain automatically makes it good in mud? Maybe I just have some bad experience with some of these tires.

You wouldn't use a soft terrain tire in the mud?

he said ROCKS and mud.. soft terrain tires have stiffer knobs contrarry to popular belief, to hold up in deep sand soft loam so they don't flex. Stiff knobs on hardpack/rocks CHUNK. Hard pack tires have to have SOFTER rubber with flexier knobs to hold on the hardpack and not chunk (as quickly). The M12xc has bigger knobs that resist chunking way better than an S12, and the wider spaced knobs fling/clear mud way better than the closer spaced knobs of the S12. Soft terrain vs mud are not gonna require the same tool in other words.

The S12 (rear) is a good tire in most conditions, from sand to rocks and mud. Yes, it will wear out a little quicker in the rocks and chunk but it still hooks up extremely well. If the sidewalls were a little stiffer (or I was using mousse inserts again) I might use the S12 again. If you get a flat w/ the S12, you're done. But for me, I've really liked the Pirelli MT16. It works in all the conditions I ride, Michigan sand to Ohio rocks and mud. And if I flat (never have on this tire) I'm sure I could ride hard to the next gas.

The S12xc are way more durable than the original S12's. The last tires I ran were MX31's. After 10-15 hrs the knobs were rounded and they had chunked off at least 5-6 knobbies on both the front and the rear. So far, I have put over 45 hrs on the S12xc's on the exact same terrain. Both fr/rr look great and neither has chunked a single knobbie yet and the knobbies are barely rounded. The only problem I've encountered is they want to step out on wet flat rock/slate.

Sounds like I need to try the s12xc

The S12 (rear) is a good tire in most conditions, from sand to rocks and mud. Yes, it will wear out a little quicker in the rocks and chunk but it still hooks up extremely well. If the sidewalls were a little stiffer (or I was using mousse inserts again) I might use the S12 again. If you get a flat w/ the S12, you're done. But for me, I've really liked the Pirelli MT16. It works in all the conditions I ride, Michigan sand to Ohio rocks and mud. And if I flat (never have on this tire) I'm sure I could ride hard to the next gas.

more air pressure will get a stiffer feeling sidewall, as well as help prevent flats. 14psi for me does the trick. Little stiffer ride? yea.. but going from 1 flat a month to zero has been a nice benefit when i used to ride with 11-12psi. Crf450, florida fast trails/harescrambles.

The S12xc are way more durable than the original S12's. The last tires I ran were MX31's. After 10-15 hrs the knobs were rounded and they had chunked off at least 5-6 knobbies on both the front and the rear. So far, I have put over 45 hrs on the S12xc's on the exact same terrain. Both fr/rr look great and neither has chunked a single knobbie yet and the knobbies are barely rounded. The only problem I've encountered is they want to step out on wet flat rock/slate.

I love the michelin s12xc's as well, but unlikley your going to find anything that really grips on wet flat rock/slate.. :ride:

I also enjoy the mt16 for the rear, I use that with an hd tube and about 12 lbs. Never had a flat, its heavy as all hell, but still no flats. I do think however I could go to an sd tube and if it goes flat you may not even notice the mt is so stiff. Im currently in a battle to find a front tire that will stick to the ground in northern jersey which is a huge rock garden.

M-12 is garbage. that's all you need to know. It sucks in rocks roots and anything in between. The s-12 is a much more well rounded tire and regardless what everyone says about its performance in the mud, it is really quite good. Not the best but definitely good. The s 12 front is the cats meow in my opinion.

Favorite set up is the mt-16 rear with a s-12 front.

second would be s-12 combos.

m12 front s12 rear.one of my favorite combo,s

thats what im running and lovin it, iv got the 'xc' ones that are designed to last longer, after 3 decent rides (about 8 hours all together) in rocks, mud, hardpack, the rear tyre only has the leading edge worn off. im pretty happy with how it performed. hooks up great:thumbsup:

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