help wiring my HHO cell

so i need help wiring up my hydrogen cell, this is the diagram im going from

http://hhosuperpack.com/Image/hho-electrical-diagram.bmp

i have everything it says but it keeps blowing the 30 amp inline fuse. so then i bumped it up to a 60 amp inline fuse and it burned up the fuse and the relay. all my amp meters dont have a DC setting so im not able to measure how much the cell is drawing. its obviously over 60 amps cause it burnt the 60 amp fuse. can you help me out in any way on maybe what resistor to use on it? :thumbsup:

Dude, what??

okay in a nut shell, i have something that is drawing 100+ amps. i know this because it will melt the insulation from the wires that im using. it has burned a 30 amp and a 60 amp fuse instantly. i need to get the 100amps down to 30 amps so it wont blow the fuses. im not sure the formula for figuring out what size resistor i would need to do this. nor do i have a multimeter to measure amps in DC current. i have a multimeter to measure amps in AC current

not trying to be a dick, but what are you even putting it in? those things have been proven to be nothing but a sham.

You're doing something wrong if your HHO cell is using 100+ amps. Check for shorts between your electrodes.

Well, I'll answer at face value (I like the fringe stuff even if they don't really work). Fwiw, Radio shack has two AC/DC/Ohms multimeters for under $20. I've had the digital one for at least 10 years and it still works great.

a 0.5 ohm resistor will allow 25.2 amps at 12.6v (battery voltage) and 28.8 amps at 14.4v (charging voltage). That's under the 30 amps you're looking for.

Resistance ® = Volts (E) / Current (I)

The resistor will need to get rid of 415 watts of heat, so a 500 watt resistor (or thereabouts) will do the trick (wire 20 of these in parallel : http://www.weisd.com/store2/NTERES/25W010.php )

Dissipated Power in watts (P) = Current (I) * Voltage (E)

But, as posted previously, if you're wired to the Brown's Gas (HHO) generator properly, you should only be pulling at most a few amps. So either it's not wired properly, the generator electrodes are shorted, or you don't have pure enough water in it (and for the health and safety of yourself and others, don't put salt in the things to try to get it to make bubbles faster) :confused:

In the end though, your overall mileage will be worse with the HHO generator because the energy for the electrolysis comes from the alternator which is powered from the fuel and whatever energy is released from the HHO combustion is negated by the same amount of energy required to break the water molecules apart in the first place. You don't get *more* energy from HHO + Gasoline combustion together than you do from combusting them separately because neither Hydrogen, Oxygen, or "HHO" is catalyzing with gasoline in this process. However, the idea of combusting HHO with gasoline has some merit (ala N02) as long as someone else wastes the energy. But if you think about it (even if the equation worked in your favor): The engine requires CFM of air and the HHO generator creates CFD (cubic feet per day) of HHO gas. it's a lot like peeing in the ocean even without the energy deficit.

A couple of last things: Since an HHO cell is producing both hydrogen and oxygen gases in a single chamber, they can run on AC and don't need to be fed by a battery (or DC system). If you wanted to, you could just run it off the stator...

These things are really dangerous in a vehicle. Regardless if they shut off immediately, there's still HHO gas in the generator and the intake. If it burns, it releases the same energy as it took to create the gas - which can be sizeable, and a backflash arrestor that protects the generator won't protect the intake. If you use NaOH or KOH electrolytes (to make gas faster), that stuff is caustic so think about what might happen if you wreck. :worthy:

Thanks for posting - it's interesting what comes up once in a while on TT! :thumbsup:

Edited by davidl9999

rookie mistake, didnt insulate a bolt that went through all my pipes and it was grounding out. no wonder why it would heat up and burn the insulation off the wires:bonk:

Always like the quick and easy fixes. :thumbsup:

So, did I waste the math??? :confused:

Anyway, post a pic. Enquiring minds want to know what this is all about!

basically my hydrogen cell will increase gas mileage up to 50%. dont jump outa your boots when you see that figure cause it all depends on the car. if the car already gets 40mpg then it would put it to about 44mpg. if your truck gets something like 8-10mpg like my lifted f250 with exhaust, injectors, k&n full intake and coils sitting on 33's then it would push it to about 20. my first test car is my 93 ford ranger 3.0 v6 that gets about 19 city and 23 hwy. i expect it to push it to 28 city and about 40 hwy. i made the cell all from scratch and wired everything up with a fuse, relay, all that good stuff. heres a couple pics of my cell and the wiring i did in my truck (i just finished setting up the cell and hoses into my truck and im too tired to take pics but i will tomorrow)

wiring:

Picture122.jpg

the outside of the cell. it holds about a liter of hydrogen in liquid form

Picture126.jpg

here is the inside of the coils where you can see the coil pipes that carry electricity, about 30 amps. all stainless steel. one positive pipe, one negative, and 2 neutrals.

Picture125.jpg

dont mind my tape holding on the HID ballast.......

All interesting and good, and pretty cool to see someone put their money where their mouth is and build something. :thumbsup:

But... the First Law of Thermodynamics affirms that you cannot get more energy out of the burning of the HHO gas than you put into electrolysing the water to create the HHO gas. So where is the energy gain coming from? (to get 44 mpg on HHO + gasoline vs. 40mpg on gasoline alone, the extra mileage has to come from somewhere).

Nevertheless, interesting build. Why the "neutral" rings? (I'm assuming that they're just not connected to anything, but not sure why).

Pretty sure that you really mean a litre of HHO gas, not "hydrogen in liquid form" as there wouldn't be room to electrolyse anything and the tube would have to be cooled to -471F, and you can't just cool H2 to a liquid, you have to supercool it (cool it below the boiling temperature at ATP (~-471F) while under pressure). You also really, really, don't want hydrogen gas (by itself) anywhere near where it can get to an exhaust temperature. If you have a leak, the explosive range of H2 is 4% to 74% - pretty wide.

Again, not trying to knock your project; just trying to wrap my head around how this is supposed to work as proposed and be safe enough to use in a vehicle. :confused:

basically the liquid hydrogen is distilled water+ electrolytes. which can be baking soda. once you have the electrolites in the water, it will make current jump from pipe to pipe. thus making every pipe a positive or negative. thats why there is a couple nuterals. in a nut shell, the HHO comes out of the cell, through a backflash arrestor (spark arrestor so i dont blow myself up) and then into the air duct just before the throttle body. the car will realise something is happening and its getting 25% extra fuel somehow. so it will then cut down 25% of its fuel. yes this will make the truck run a little weird since it has another fuel sorce coming in but i havent noticed it running rougher enough to notice.

okay, cool. it's certainly challenging to electrolyse distilled water. :confused:

bicarb is pretty safe but you'll be boiling off the hydrogen into the carbonate which will raise PH to be pretty caustic (ala washing soda). Anyway, be careful with the liquid in that cell after you've run it for a while. (again, a concern about putting this in a passenger vehicle)

The conservation of energy math doesn't work on my end, but if it really does what you say it will, then the proof will be in the pudding, won't it.

Would love to see a photo of the system in use, and Good luck! :thumbsup:

Picture128.jpg

Picture127.jpg

gonna fill the tank up to F tomorrow and calculate results when it hits E. then ill run it for another tank while the cell is OFF. and see the results

That's looking nice! :thumbsup:

Something crossed my mind after looking at the last set of pics: How are you preventing aspiration of the electrolyte into the intake, and how are you keeping liquid in the HHO cell? I realize that the cell will shut off - in a electrolysis sense - if it runs out of electrolyte, but won't the current density get pretty high and the PH pretty alkaline as the electrolyte level drops below the the top of the electrodes?

BTW, I figured out that if HHO is being used as a contributor to combustion energy (vs. being used as a catalyst for gasoline combustion), then by the time you burned 16.3 gallons of gasoline at 40mpg total, you would have electrolysed 157 lbs of water. The nutshell version is:

There are 136 MJ of energy in 1 gallon of gasoline, and 13.173 MJ of energy required to electrolyse 1 litre of water (or 237.13 KJ/mole (18g) of water which you get back when the HHO gas is burned). The energy contribution of HHO would be (40-23)/40 or 42.5% or 57.8 MJ, which equates to 4.385 litres of water (1.158 gallons) electrolised and burnt per gallon of gasoline or 18.875 gallons of water per tank. All of that water weighs about 157.52 lb (at 8.3454 lb/gallon of water at STP). Mind you that this assumes 100% efficiency in the heat cycle for burning the HHO, which is not possible in a heat engine.

So I guess the question that comes up now is where to put the second "gastank"?

Yeah, I'm trying to keep it a bit tongue-in-cheek because I don't see how the thermodynamics is going to work in your favor, and I realize that I'm armchair quarterbacking, but who knows what your results will be when you actually try this? It would be very cool if you got some real gains! :confused:

Edited by davidl9999
1993 Ford Ranger (std) has a 16.3 gal tank, not 16.5.

You do realise that your engine will run very lean with this hydrogen cell fitted, and it will most likely ping its head off under acceleration unless of course it has a knock sensor in which case if it does the engine management will retard the ignition timing untill the engine stops pinging and this will make it a slow/gutless turd, and if your engine does not have a knock sensor and it pings then we all know its not going to last long. Now i dont want to bust your bubble but thats just my point of view and ive been an automotive mechanic for nearly 10 years and removed many of these ''great inventions'' from brain washed peoples cars because their engine is destroyed.

it does make it run a little lean, nothing thats barely even noticeable. i can tell it doesnt like to idle as good but its barely noticeable. no ping, runs like a champ. there is a box i can get that will manipulate the sensors and everything to get it going correct but im not to that stage yet. and as for david, your numbers and words are far too advanced for me to understand......:thumbsup:

as far as keeping liquid IN the cell, the trick is to not over fill it. the liquid stays around half of the housing. not much can splash out. although i did see a little bit on my hose just before the backflash arrestor earlier today. just lifted the hose and let it run back into the cell. ill attatch the hose somewhere else so that its uphill and water cant get through. no liquid can get past the backflash arrestor though. its packed pretty right with bronze steel wool. i will probably add a bubbler between the cell and arrestor also

Nearly every time someone reports positive results from one of these kits, it turns out that they ALSO installed a modified chip in the vehicle's computer. All the other positive reports I've seen typically involve poor testing methodology (or deluded people that simply refuse to accept reality.)

If you really want to look at the details, search the CR4 Engineering forums for "HHO". Plenty of folks there have laid out the science and math of the whole thing. There are even a few threads where people have tried to work out the proper testing -- although it usually ends with the HHO enthusiast disappearing without posting the final report.

i usually get about 60 miles on a quarter tank in my ranger 3.0 v6 and i ran my ranger through a quarter tank with the HHO cell crankin, i got 61 miles on it.... doesnt seem to have done anything. yesterday i filled it up with a full tank and i usually get 350-375 per full tank so unless i get at least 425 its doing nothing. i give real results and i accept reality

... and as for david, your numbers and words are far too advanced for me to understand......:smirk:

Nothing new - I tend to wind up getting "too technical" even when I'm trying to keep things simple.

The point was to show that if you want 40 MPG and you get 23MPG now, you need to add enough energy to the engine to get an extra 17MPG. The math showed how much energy you needed and how much extra fuel (water) you'd need to carry.

Regardless if it works or not, I like what you've built and that you're putting your money where your mouth is by doing that and posting how things are working out for you on here, including taking the usual crap and just answering to it. Kudos for that. :smirk:

thanks :smirk:

i noticed that it started getting the crappy mileage again so i pulled the cell off and it had a massive leak and leaked all my water out. i need to re seal it up and make some adjustments to it again and put it back on

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