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issues with how to check ignition timing

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Hi all,

1st post so go easy on me! Hope someone can help, have searched forums but cant find anything on this.

I'm not the smartest man alive but i'm sure it can't be this hard to check the ignition timing?? Followed the manual to the letter, run the engine at 1000rpm, take off the timing inspection cap and aim the timing light at it, easy...

Except when i take the cap off, i get a constant spray/mist of oil coming out of the inspection hole which makes it impossible to see anything. Tried to lean the bike over the other way, no help. even drained some oil out thinking it was too high, nothing. The crank breather is not blocked. Oil filter is on the correct way.

Has anyone else done this and found the same problem??

Thanks.

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you need a shop manual friend. 1st, you do not use a timing light on dirt bikes. 2nd, bike should not be running. It's a matter of hatch marks on your timing chain/gear. Private Message me your email address and I'll email a PDF manual to you.

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Thanks for the response Rome06379.

I've got a Kawasaki Service manual and unless i've got a dud one, Page 16-25 of my manual (titled "Ignition Timing Inspection") states that the engine needs to be on and running at 1000rpm and a timing light is to be used. I couldn't think of any other way to check ignition timing.

Perhaps you thought i was looking at Valve Timing?

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These bikes idle at 1900RPM so it might be hard to check at 1000RPM,I will have look at the manual to see what it says

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Thanks for the response Rome06379.

I've got a Kawasaki Service manual and unless i've got a dud one, Page 16-25 of my manual (titled "Ignition Timing Inspection") states that the engine needs to be on and running at 1000rpm and a timing light is to be used. I couldn't think of any other way to check ignition timing.

Perhaps you thought i was looking at Valve Timing?

I did think you meant valve timing, my bad. I checked my manual and found the same information as you did. What problem are you having that makes you suspect ignition timing....just curious

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ok, here's the story... I purchased the bike brand new 9 months ago. Its an 08 model the dealer has sitting around and wanted to get rid of so picked it up at a good price. Its had a bit of a rattle when going through the lower revs under load which sounded just like pinging (knocking) when i got it but i never paid much attention to it at first as these bikes make all sorts of rattles anyway. Went riding with another klx450 a couple of months after i got it and noticed that his didn't make that noise. Started me thinking it may actually be engine knocking.

I changed the jetting (increased in size) after that ride as I found out (from this site) they're lean to start with and thought it might help with any pinging. Bike ran much better but the noise is still there. Have recently taken the spark plug out to have a look and there were a handful of flecks stuck to it which, under a magnifying glass, look like aluminium. Another sign of pinging so i've found out.

It's out of warranty (only 3 months with the bike) and I know the dealer wont want a bar of it as he sold it cheap and just wanted to be rid of it.

I'm running 98 octane fuel and the bike has only done 600kms so i have no idea why it would be doing this other than if the timing is out and advanced too far and igniting the fuel too early. Hence why i'm trying to check the timing. Read the manual, thought great, this'll be a 2 minute job... 4 hrs later i still can't do it!

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ok, here's the story... I purchased the bike brand new 9 months ago. Its an 08 model the dealer has sitting around and wanted to get rid of so picked it up at a good price. Its had a bit of a rattle when going through the lower revs under load which sounded just like pinging (knocking) when i got it but i never paid much attention to it at first as these bikes make all sorts of rattles anyway. Went riding with another klx450 a couple of months after i got it and noticed that his didn't make that noise. Started me thinking it may actually be engine knocking.

I changed the jetting (increased in size) after that ride as I found out (from this site) they're lean to start with and thought it might help with any pinging. Bike ran much better but the noise is still there. Have recently taken the spark plug out to have a look and there were a handful of flecks stuck to it which, under a magnifying glass, look like aluminium. Another sign of pinging so i've found out.

It's out of warranty (only 3 months with the bike) and I know the dealer wont want a bar of it as he sold it cheap and just wanted to be rid of it.

I'm running 98 octane fuel and the bike has only done 600kms so i have no idea why it would be doing this other than if the timing is out and advanced too far and igniting the fuel too early. Hence why i'm trying to check the timing. Read the manual, thought great, this'll be a 2 minute job... 4 hrs later i still can't do it!

There is nothing wrong with your timing. You don't need to adjust it. It is done via the ECU unit and mapping, not by 'moving the backplate' like with older ignitions. There is a mechanical adjustment available, but it is less than 1 degree.

The pinging you are hearing is normal. The motors are very noisy.

It is usually the sound of the chain slapping the swingarm rubstrip, which in turn slaps the hollow swingarm. It can get very loud, and sound like detonation. Unless you are running 81 octane at 100 degrees and 90 humidity, you should never experience detonation. You should affix the rubstrip with RTV silicone to the swingarm, to quiet it down. It will wear out very fast anyway (all KX/KLX's do), so just replace it with a TM brand part.

Flecs on the sparkplug are also normal on a new motor. Check your oil filter, and you will see them there too.

You will experience the 'slapping' sound when in a gear to high for the amount of throttle you give it.

You will experience detonation only under extreme load (or if the motor is jetting very very lean, under any load).

Do yourself a favor and get a JD jet kit. It comes with lots of tips on tuning, and applications for different altitudes.

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That pinging you're hearing is most likely the AIS emissions crap on it. Remove it, plug the three holes and you will run cooler and have a quieter bike. Here's a link for the block off kit:http://appliedrace.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=1627

There is a few thread on here on how do to do it. easy peasy!

No AIS on aussie models

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That pinging you're hearing is most likely the AIS emissions crap on it. Remove it, plug the three holes and you will run cooler and have a quieter bike. Here's a link for the block off kit:http://appliedrace.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=1627

There is a few thread on here on how do to do it. easy peasy!

That is almost completely wrong.

All AIS does is inject air into the exhaust, effectifely diluting it. It does affect jetting or running. It can add to decel popping. It absolutely will not cause pinging. Removal mostly removes weight (a pound or less) and declutters the bike.

All bikes are not jetted lean. You believe that, I have preprocessed food from a special tank in my yard, every five years, I pump it out, you can buy it cheap.

Bikes are jetted for sea level, 30 inches mercury, 50% humidity, 68 degrees F. If your riding are is different, you need to adjust to suit.

There should be no metal flakes on the spark plug. That is not normal. It most likely is from pinging or knocking. That can be excaberated by lugging the engine (babying it, very bad) or using a too low a grade or old fuel.

In rare instances, it can be a cam timing issue, whether it is due to being at the extreme end of tolerances or a problem like a cam sprocket slipping on a cam.

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That is almost completely wrong.

All AIS does is inject air into the exhaust, effectifely diluting it. It does affect jetting or running. It can add to decel popping. It absolutely will not cause pinging. Removal mostly removes weight (a pound or less) and declutters the bike.

All bikes are not jetted lean. You believe that, I have preprocessed food from a special tank in my yard, every five years, I pump it out, you can buy it cheap.

Bikes are jetted for sea level, 30 inches mercury, 50% humidity, 68 degrees F. If your riding are is different, you need to adjust to suit.

There should be no metal flakes on the spark plug. That is not normal. It most likely is from pinging or knocking. That can be excaberated by lugging the engine (babying it, very bad) or using a too low a grade or old fuel.

In rare instances, it can be a cam timing issue, whether it is due to being at the extreme end of tolerances or a problem like a cam sprocket slipping on a cam.

Actually that is not "completely wrong". On MY bike, the AIS produced a "pumping" sound which could be misconstrued for a pinging sound. Maybe it was just my bike but it was very noticable. Removed AIS=sound gone. Also, the AIS does pump superheated air into the exhaust which is raising the temperature of the exhaust and I think would increase back pressure causing a "hotter" running engine. And as you stated, AIS removal helped with popping on decel although the biggest remedy is changing the needle and raising it a bit.:thumbsup:

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thanks for all the info. I was going to check the cam timing anyway in the coming weeks so will let you all know if i find anything. And we don't have any AIS stuff in Aus, lucky us!

Don't know what else i can do but monitor the situation. I'm pretty sure the jetting mods i have done would only make it better if anything (increased pilot and main and needle one notch higher). it seems to run really well on that front. I've been Using the highest octane fuel that is readily available (98) so will let you all know how i go in the next few weeks.

I've given up trying the check ignition timing, seems like its pretty much impossible to do.

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