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00 KX80 spitting alot of oil out exhaust! I mean Alot!

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Ok My sons 00 kx80 was leaking an excessive amount of oil out the silencer, I mean it puddles on the floor of the garage when ideling on the stand. If you rev it on the stand it will literally splatter the wall, so I did several searches on this site and so far I have repacked the silencer, changed pipe to a new FMF fatty ,drained fuel tank changed fuel lines,cleaned carb, jetted down to a 122 main with a 55 pilot as opposed to stock 125 main 58 pilot as this is what FMF recommended, mixed fresh 93 with some TORCO synthetic at 32-1 and guess what still smokes alot and spits oil out the silencer...:thumbsup::confused:

Am I missing something? I amnot new to two strokes so I get that they spit a little oil out the exhaust but this is excessive, now my son is new to shifting so he has been loading the thing up by riding in too high a gear etc, could this be it?? I would appreciate any help you can give Thanks

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if it still does it even after you repacked the silencer, and rejetted it, my next guess would be the crank seal, and on kawasakis, you have to split the cases. check the oil level and see if its low. the bike should load up but not that bad, even if your riding to high of a gear. It would load up but should not spatter on the wall.

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I forgot to mention I also changed the crankcase oil when I was doing everything else, crankcase oil does not appear to be dropping any, of course it is hard to tell thru a sight glass, I will keep an eye on it but I do not think the level is dropping any.Thanks for the reply, any other thoughts?

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When my beginner daughter took over riding my sons cobra 65 it started exhibiting the same thing. she wasnt riding on the pipe and loaded it up like crazy. same thing would spit oil all over the place, run out of silencer and coat the swingarm, it was horrible. Get him on the pipe.

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If its spitting out that much, I would say the right side crank seal is bad, and allowing tranny oil to enter the cylinder. Kawi 80/85/100 motors are pretty bad with this.

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Have you always run at 32:1? I'd try it with a leaner mixture and see if that reduces/eliminates the splatter. I break it with a tank at 32:1 and then 40:1 after that. It wouldn't seem like the small ratio change is that significant, but before I split cases, I would eliminate all other possibilities first.

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Can I run 40-1 on these little bikes? I thought 40-1 was too lean on the little motors.

How can I check the crank seal? Do I have to split the case? Is there a way to test the seal without pulling it apart? I will say transmisson has not lost any oil that I can see, Still looks full after a couple hours ride time, of course it is hard to tell threw a site glass. thanks

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Put new oil in the tranny. Whatever amount the bike calls for. Run it for a few hours, then drain it into a measuring cup, and see if the same amount comes out as you put in a few hours ago. Honestly, you could run 24:1 in these bikes as long as its JETTED for it. If its not a crank seal, then your jetting is just so far off its spooging like crazy. Pick a ratio and jet for it if it is not the crank seal.

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yes you can run a 40 to 1 in these small motors, depending on a million different things

maby even try riding the snot out of the bike for a little and try to blow some of that crap out. to chec the crank seal pull the spark plug out and slowly turn the motor over and you should feel and maby hear the bottom end compression. if you can hear it leaking out and it feels like the compression goes away when you slowly rotate the motor then your seals are bad, i recomend doing bearings while your there. to split the cases on the motor you can watch a vid on youtube, heres the link. its a 3 part vid.

heres something else that helped me, hope it helps you and solves your spooge problem.. good luck

Pre-Mix 101

Looks like it's time for a little pre-mix 101. I don't usually get into ratio discussions, because mix ratios are like religions to most people, and they tend to be closed-minded and hard-headed on the subject, but I'll put in my $.02 here anyway.

Anyone that believes that spooge and plug fouling are caused by too much oil in the mix is flat out wrong. If you know how to jet, you can run any amount of oil you choose, and have absolutely zero spooge.

There is a prevailing myth that less oil is better. This simply isn't the case. While there isn't a magic "one-size-fits-all" mix ratio, and it is possible to use too much oil for your conditions, generally speaking, more oil is better, within certain limitations.

When an engine is jetted too rich, the excess fuel leeches heat from the combustion process, causing the combustion chamber temperatures to be too low to effectively burn the oil, or even completely burn all of the fuel. The result is spooge and deposits. The spooge is nothing more than unburned fuel and oil passing out the exhaust.

If you have a spooge problem, you have a jetting problem. You don't get rid of the spooge by reducing the oil, you get rid of it by fixing the jetting. Correct jetting will produce an air/fuel ratio of about 14:1, which will produce combustion temperatures in the 6000F range and exhaust temperatures in the 1200F range. This will provide sufficient heat to consume the premix oil.

The same goes for plug fouling. Rich jetting does two things. First, it promotes incomplete combustion of the fuel and the oil due to reduced combustion temperatures. The incomplete combustion of the fuel and oil promotes deposit formation inside the engine. Second, rich jetting reduces the combustion temperatures, which in turn reduces the engines ability to burn off deposits. Combine increased deposit formation with reduced ability to burn off those deposits, and what do you get? Spooge and plug fouling.

You don't choose a mix ratio based on "spooge" or plug fouling, you choose the ratio based on the amount of oil your engine needs to provide sufficient protection and adequate ring seal. The common misconception is that mix ratios are "one-size-fits-all", when in fact nothing could be farther from the truth.The amount of oil that is correct for one rider on his bike may not be enough oil for another rider/bike, or it may be too much oil. It all depends on engine displacement, riding style, and how hard you push the engine. A trail rider on a 500 that never reams the bike out is probably fine on a diet of 50:1, where a super-fast up-and-coming young future pro that screams an 85 'till the dogs howl the entire time he's on the track might not get a full day of racing out of an engine on less than 30:1. Your engine's oil needs are determined by displacement, rev range, and the loads you put on your engine.

When you shut your engine down and let it sit, much of the oil drains down into the crankcase and forms a puddle in the bottom. The depth of this puddle is your indicator of whether you are running the correct amount of oil for your engine's needs. Ideally, you want this puddle to be between 1/8 and 1/4 inch. If it's less, you need more oil in your mix. If it's more, you are running more oil than you need for your conditions.

With that said, to have that amount of residual oil in the crankcase at 50:1 (a ratio made popular by magazines and oil bottles), you can't be riding very hard, or your bike is jetted richer than necessary simply to deliver enough oil. I arrived at 32:1 for my bike with my riding style because that is the amount that gives me the proper amount of residual build-up. Small-bore engines require greater oil concentrations than larger engines to achieve the proper amount of residual build-up, because they rev higher and have higher intake velocities. Along the same lines, someone that pushes the engine harder, and keeps the revs higher, also needs to use higher oil concentrations to achieve the proper residual build-up.

When I was much younger and a lot faster, 32:1 wasn't enough oil for my conditions. I needed 26:1 to have enough oil. And I have run as much as 18:1 with no spooge or plug fouling issues.

To understand why the mix ratio is so important, you have to understand what happens to the oil in your fuel when it goes into the engine. While the oil is still suspended in the liquid gasoline, it can not lubricate anything. It has about as much lubricity at that point as straight gasoline. When the gasoline enters the engine, it evaporates, dropping the oil out of suspension. Now that the oil is free, it can lubricate the engine. The oil mist is distributed throughout the engine by the spinning crankshaft and the moving air currents to coat all the internal surfaces.

People believe that the oil just rushes right through a two-stroke along with the fuel, but that just isn't so. It can take 90 minutes or more for the oil migration through a two-stroke to result in a complete oil exchange on a slow trail ride, and even as much as 5 minutes for a full-throttle 20 minute moto.

The oil eventually makes it into the combustion chamber, where it is either burned, or passes out the exhaust. If the combustion chamber temps are too low, such as in an engine that is jetted too rich, the oil doesn't burn completely. Instead, some of it hardens into deposits in the combustion chamber, on the piston, and on the power valve assembly. The rest becomes the dreaded "spooge". The key to all of this working in harmony is to jet the bike lean enough to achieve a high enough combustion chamber temperature to burn the oil, but also still be able to supply enough oil to protect the engine. If you use enough oil, you can jet the bike at it's optimum without starving the engine of oil, and have excellent power, with minimal deposits and spooge. At 50:1 in a small-bore engine, you simply can't jet very lean without risking a seized engine due to oil starvation.

One small point. No one ever broke an engine by using too much oil.

Now we come to the issue of ring seal. Simply put, the rings alone can not effectively seal the cylinder. They also need oil to provide a complete seal against the bore surface. And up to a point, more oil will provide a better seal.

I have run Dyno tests on this subject, as a school project in Tech School. We used a Dynojet dynamometer, and used a fresh, broken in top-end for each test. We used specially calibrated jets to ensure the fuel flow was identical with each different ratio, and warmed the engine at 3000 rpm for 3 minutes before each run. Our tests were performed in the rpm range of 2500 to 9000 rpm, with the power peak of our test bike (an '86 YZ 250) occuring at 8750 rpm. We tested at 76 degrees F, at 65% relative humidity. We started at 10:1, and went to 100:1. Our results showed that a two-stroke engine makes its best power at 18:1. Any more oil than that, and the engine ran poorly, because we didn't have any jets rich enough to compensate for that much oil in the fuel. The power loss from 18:1 to 32:1 was approximately 2 percent. The loss from 18:1 to 50:1 was nearly 9 percent. On a modern 250, that can be as much as 4 horsepower. The loss from 18:1 to 100:1 was nearly 18 percent. The reason for the difference in output is simple. More oil provides a better seal between the ring and the cylinder wall.

Now, I realize that 18:1 is impractical unless you ride your engine all-out, keeping it pinned at all times. But running reasonable ratios no less than 32:1 will produce more power, and give your engine better protection, thus making it perform better for longer.

The bottom line? Choose a mix ratio that is adequate for your needs, and jet accordingly. You don't fix plug fouling and spooge by adjusting your mix ratio.

This is an interesting read that also supports my "more oil is better" claim.

http://www.bridgestonemotorcycle.com...oilpremix6.pdf

And this is a good article as well:

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BRAVO 1RAD58! i HAVE BEEN TOUTING THE SAME CONCEPTS AND SIMILAR REPORTS FOR YEARS! Oil ratios are key to ring seal and power output not to mention engine life in these little bikes. Unless you are putzing around on these little kawis do not run less than 32:1. Trust me your wallet will be much happier! To get back to the topic at hand, you would definitely be able to tell your clutch oil dissappearing. I promise you it is your kid being new to the bike and not ringing the snot out of it. Run the 32:1 and jet the bike properly. What jets are you running? If the kid is not screaming it, you can lean it out and be OK until he starts getting on the pipe. Before you rejet, take the bike out yourself and blow out all the gunk that has built up in there then rejet and replace the packing. Your problem should get better if you are jetted properly for his riding style. Let us know what jetting including clip setting and how many turns out your airscrew is and we will get you going in the right and safe direction.

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Stock jetting was 125 main with 58 pilot, needle 3rd clip and air screw 1 turn out, I changed the pipe to an FMF Fatty and am currently at 122 main 55 pilot needle 3rd clip and air screw 1.5 turns out, hard to get a plug read as he keeps fouling them quicker then I can check. I would appreciate any help I can get and I appreciate the responses and advice! Thanks

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I had the same problem with my son's bike. Keep the premix at 32:1. You can mess with the jetting, but make sure you check the spark plug after each jetting change. Another thing you can check is the power valve it wasn't mentioned. His was stuck open. They get gummed up and have to be broken down and cleaned. This is a common problem with these bikes.

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your spot on with the jetting. Power valve could contribute to the problem. Start running an irridium plug. They are much less likely to foul. Make sure you have good compression. This may be a case where the sum of a few things equals one big pile of spooge. Lets go over things. Your fuel mix is right, jetting is in the ballpark, your not loosing clutch oil. You are however not getting a good burn of your mixture. Put the irridium in, after thinking about it, I bet you need a top end and clean power valve. Clean and repack silencer and blow the hell out of the thing in the yard to get the risidual crap out of there and last but not least, teach the kid that he needs to get that bike to scream. If he seems to be afraid of it (sometimes kids equate the bike screaming to the bike going to fast for them) explain and show him how the bike can only go so fast in first second third or whatever. If he is short shifting or not getting on the pipe, this will continue to happen however it shouldnt be as bad as it is. I bet rings help a ton. Keep us posted

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Did a compression check tonight. 123 cold 10 good kicks with throttle wide open.Manual does not say what compression should be, Our race atv (90 mod DRR) was at 125, ran same carb and almsot same jetting ( just thought that was interesting) What should compression be? Am I in the ball park? I repacked the silencer and changed to a new pipe already, have not checked the power valve yet, how big a job is that? May try it tomorrow nite, gotta watch the Bruins tonight although they had a tough first 13 seconds! Thanks guys I appreciate the info and help!

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quite simply, these moto-x bikes are not meant to idle in the garage, be ridden by beginners, or trail ridden. Thats what 4strokes are for. You will find with the silencer repacked and the bike ridden in it's designed agressive manner, there will be hardly any spooge!!!

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Compression #s can vary greatly depending on the gauge you have and the length of hose. Best thing to do is get a reading on a new top end in the bike and then you have a reference point to start from. Once the readings drop by 10% its time for a new top end. Sounds a little low to me though. Not a big deal to re ring it at a minimum depending on cylinder and piston condition. If it were my bike I would put a new top end in it anyway just for piece of mind. Kind of like changing the oil right away when you buy a used car. When you remove the aluminum cover on the powervalve (front of cylinder) there are two phillips head screws that can be a bear toget out without stripping the heads. Get an impact driver (the kind you hit with a hammer) it will save lots of swearing and aggrevation.

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By the way, when you do the comp. check, keep kicking until the gauge doesnt go up anymore. Sometimes as many as 30.

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Ok Thanks. Anyone have any idea what the compression should be on these motors? Thanks Guys you have all been very helpful, I will clean the power valve in the very near future.

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Ok Thanks. Anyone have any idea what the compression should be on these motors? Thanks Guys you have all been very helpful, I will clean the power valve in the very near future.

I know on my son's 08 KX 85 stock compression should be 165. I don't know if your year bike is anywhere close to that since it is 80cc.

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