Nose diving

[onefasthonda]

Last saturday I went too my first motocross race it was a great experience I just have a couple of questions. My first question is on the biggest double thier I cleared about 8 times but half of them were good and the other times my front end keep on nose diving? Idk what is causing this to happen, Im not letting off the gas at the face of the jump or anything Idk what is causing the front end to nose dive? If anybody would have any suggestions what is causing my front end to nose dive please let me know what to do to correct my error before I have a big spill:p. My second question is that my front tires is always trying to slid out from me? Idk what is causing this? It may be were I have a cheapier tire but it still has good tread, I just don't know what is causing this? Any tips would be greatly apperciated:thumbsup:

Thanks for all replies:ride:

[hazard88]

sounds like Fork issue. I'm sure you have checked the outer tubes but I had similar problems (steering not off jumps) and found I a blown seal on the inner cartridge and has zero oil in there. Front end could be blowing through the stroke. Might be as simply as speeding up the rebound but I'm not a suspension guru. Just some thoughts.

[tye1138]

Nose dives can be caused by the jump take off lip being messed up in one section and not in the other sections. What happens is, your rear suspension compresses more then it should off the face and rebounds very quick, causing the front to nose dive.

You can fix this by adding some rebound to the rear end or adjusting how you take off from the jump. You could have too stiff of a rear spring as well.

[hazard88]

What he said. I said speed up but meant slow down the rear. Check your sag is correct then you might need to change the damper and rebound settings for your weight and style. Hopefully there is a suspension db on your bike. Check the internals of the forks if all else fails. I may have rushed to this conclusion as I just discovered this last weekend and it's still on my mind. ?

[onefasthonda]

Well me and dad already done what you said about the inner cartidge on the bike we replaced oil on them. Also we are keeply stuck on the suspension part, we are clueless. Could you all help guide me through this and how to setup the bike? Thanks alot.

[ridleyredraider]

What bike do you have?

Your weight?

Your rear spring rate?

Sag setting?

[onefasthonda]

Bike: 1998 cr250r

Weight: 189lbs

Spring rate: Idk I just know what ever factory recalls.

Sag setting: Idk what this is?

[98cr250r]

My first question is on the biggest double thier I cleared about 8 times but half of them were good and the other times my front end keep on nose diving?

Not sure why people are telling you that its suspension problems... Your problem has absolutely NOTHING to do with your suspension! Well, maybe it does, you might have suspension that has a mind of its own, and does something different every time that you hit the same jump.

Stop worrying about suspension, worry more about what you were doing different. OR, what was different about the jump. You hit the same jump, half the time it was good, half the time you nose dived. This is something that your going to have to figure out on your own.

Some possibilities?

* Was the jump face just as smooth all the way across? Or was there a kicker? (a bump next to the top) A rock? Hitting something like that will make your rear end kick up high. Were you hitting the jump in exactly the same place every time? If you were hitting it, using the exact same line, then it was definetly you, not the jump.

* Were you in the same gear every time? Your 98 cr250 will act a lot different when its on the pipe, compared to when its off the pipe. If your a gear higher, not on the pipe, that could have the same effect as letting off the gas (to a lesser degree)

* Body position.. Was it the same every time?

Have fun! ?

[98cr250r]

Nose dives can be caused by the jump take off lip being messed up in one section and not in the other sections. What happens is, your rear suspension compresses more then it should off the face and rebounds very quick, causing the front to nose dive.

You can fix this by adding some rebound to the rear end or adjusting how you take off from the jump. You could have too stiff of a rear spring as well.

tye... just curious... Do you adjust your suspension if your having a problems with a kicker, on one jump, on the whole track? There have been a LOT of comments on TT about people adjusting their suspension to deal with jumping problems.

I must be in a world of my own. The ONLY thing related to jumping that I adjust my suspension for is bottoming resistance. Aside from that, my clickers are for accel bumps, braking bumps, corners, and whoops. Jumps I compensate for with throttle and body position, not clickers.

[Yami-Ivan]

Bike: 1998 cr250r

Weight: 189lbs

Spring rate: Idk I just know what ever factory recalls.

Sag setting: Idk what this is?

If you don't know what sag setting is, then you should do a search on TT. You need to set your static and race sag, race being the most important of the two.

[ridleyredraider]

Post a video with sound.

[revitup]

Race Sag:

If you absolutely cannot get ther race sag set with your current spring you may need a lighter or heavier spring. Research your particular bike also on preferred setups for the race sag and fork setup.

Front tire washout could be a variety of things including too much air in the front tire.

[bmoore2618]

Like tye said, it could have something to do with your suspension, or the lip of the jump being messed up. Have you set your sag and everything on your suspension? If your rear shock is getting bottomed out on the face of the jump it could cause it to unload hard and throw the rear of the bike upward.

As for your front end washing out, it could be either body position (too far back), or a for issue (adjust where the forks are in the triple clamp).

[tye1138]

tye... just curious... Do you adjust your suspension if your having a problems with a kicker, on one jump, on the whole track?

Well, my suspension is perfect. I have perfect sag in both front and rear, I re-build my suspension 2 times a year and have already identified a range of adjustments that work. If you haven't setup your suspension properly and don't keep it maintained right, you will not be able to adjust it to compensate because the adjustments might not do anything.

When I hit a jump that nose dives (even after adjusting the suspension), I usually try to find a spot on the jump face/lip that doesn't have that problem. Usually you can physically see the problem with the face if you know what to look for.

I must be in a world of my own. The ONLY thing related to jumping that I adjust my suspension for is bottoming resistance. Aside from that, my clickers are for accel bumps, braking bumps, corners, and whoops. Jumps I compensate for with throttle and body position, not clickers.

Bottoming resistance shouldn't be "adjusted" for, it should be a normal function of your suspension. If you have to "dial in" resistance, you're suspension is not setup properly.

Yes, you can compensate with your body position in most cases but again, if your suspension isn't setup right, compensating with your body might not do the trick.

[dmm698]

It seems that everybody is blaming the bike. I personally, would not go changing the rebound on my bike because the face of one jump has a kicker. Then when I hit the other 99.9% of the track the bike would not rebound worth a crap through the accel bumps or braking bumps. Trying to change your suspension after doing a jump correctly 50% of the time is a band aid fix. Ok so you slow the rebound, now the 50% of the time you were doing the jump correctly your going to be doing the oposite, boner airing that thing. Then the 50 percent of nose diving will be replaced with the good. You need to stay on the throttle smooth and steady. Its hard on 250 smoker, and thats why whenever I hit stuff on the 05 I had I generally liked to carry more speed then I needed so I could coast up the face and give it a quick brap at the lip. It takes getting used to. On the 250f I have its just smooth up the face, and the 125 I have is just WFO. Adjust your body positioning and dont chop the throttle on the face.

EDIT: I dont know about you guys, but I think its a Huge waiste to go to the track and just play with your bike all day. Yes you need to play with the clickers from track to track, but if your spending more time messing with your suspension instead of riding, are you really getting any better? I make one or two click adjustments from track to track or as the track progressively gets rougher, I have no intentions of being like Tye and changing my stuff all day because I want to get all the seat time I can at the track.

[tye1138]

I make one or two click adjustments from track to track or as the track progressively gets rougher, I have no intentions of being like Tye and changing my stuff all day because I want to get all the seat time I can at the track.

Actually I really don't adjust very much anymore. For instance, yesterday I wanted some more boost of a jump, so I increased the compression 2 clicks on the forks, but I did it on the side of the track cuz the KTM has finger adjustments. I got back on the track and it felt better. Those are the types of adjustments I make, simple, to the point and move forward. Plus, I ride 3 - 4 times a week, 5 - 7 hours per time, so I can afford the few seconds to adjust the clickers.

The reasoning for telling the OP that suspension is something to be thought about is because his bike is 13 years old, its probably not setup right to begin with. Its WAY easier to fix the bike (doesn't require any talent/time or brain power) then it is to fix your riding abilities. So why not do the easiest thing first, make sure the bike is setup right and THEN once you know for 100% fact its perfect, work on your own skills.

[Paab]

My guess is he's rolling off the gas too early on occasion sending him nose down. Whatever the suspension is, the technique still has to be there.

[dmm698]

What I'm trying to say is if enzo showed up with a set of A kit forks all done up to you for your abilities and knew exactly how you wanted the bike to react. In this perfect world you knew it was perfect and didnt need any adjustments. If you go out there with your new perfect world suspension, is it going to make YOU any better over jumps if you roll off the throttle first causing the endo? I dont want to sound arrogant or anything, I just think if somebody is having an issue thats pretty clearly related to their riding manuevers when they can do something half the time right its not time to blame the machine. ALthough, to the OP I do advise for you to at least set your sag, and if you want to be able to feel comfortable on the bike you should freshen it up with new fluids and such as its an older bike and you dont know when it was done last. Hit the jump with more throttle on the lip.

[tye1138]

What I'm trying to say is if enzo showed up with a set of A kit forks all done up to you for your abilities and knew exactly how you wanted the bike to react. In this perfect world you knew it was perfect and didnt need any adjustments. If you go out there with your new perfect world suspension, is it going to make YOU any better over jumps if you roll off the throttle first causing the endo?

No, but what it does is insure that its the rider and not the bike.

If you don't know how to ride, (which is why people are on here in the first place) then you need to first go down the list of things outside of physically riding, that can help you ride better. One thing you can get assistance with is to have someone setup your suspension properly first and then learn how to ride the bike thats setup right.

I dont want to sound arrogant or anything, I just think if somebody is having an issue thats pretty clearly related to their riding manuevers when they can do something half the time right its not time to blame the machine.

Do you ever hit jumps that have degraded lips? Maybe there is one spot on the jump face that is lower then the rest or higher then the rest due to it being degraded from bikes going over the same place all day. I always have issues with that since I ride a 125 and when lips get degraded, I will all of a sudden not be able to clear the jump and it gets frustrating because I've gotta change my lines to work on a section of the jump that doesn't have a degraded lip.

[dmm698]

I love riding my 05 kx125, but I see what your saying. Most of the tracks around here dont have any jumps I have to really stretch it on to hit it, and if it gets to that point i'll just seat bounce it. No doubt the 250f is easier, inside lines are a lot easier to pull jumps tightly out of the corners. I love having both though.