Clutch Options due to lurching, my options your opinions

[idsmokeu2]

My clutch has been sort of hanging up the past few races. I didn't think much about it in the beginning but it was brought to my attention on a joy ride yesterday.

1) When I pull in the clutch from a 1st gear roll it does not dis-engage fully for some reason cause sometimes bike won't stop I then hit back brake and it will stall out sometimes.

2) Pushing the bike with clutch in is impossible, the back tire just slides

3) Finding neutral has gotten more difficult, helps to get it in there when I "blip" the throttle slightly. The RPM's then lower almost always.

4) I have noticed starting has gotten slightly harder, it just seems there has been more drag, cause I have the bike starting first kick normally everytime at the moment cold or hot..

I took apart my clutch and have not measured to compare the tolerances but wanted to check the notching on the clutch basket. It's slightly notched nothing deep at all but one can see where plates have contacted the basket and feel it with your fingernail a little but. The fibers and disks were hard to get out pretty stuck within the basket like a suction cup. Had to pull them out with needle nose pliers and still had a difficult time. When I pulled the clutch in the only fibers that moved were the outside two.

What I'm wondering if I clean the clutch fiber/disks in some kind of other oil would that maybe help since the basket seems to be not that that bad. What is the recommended cleaning method is fibers are in spec?

I have searched a lot and most people seem to have clutch basket problems and their notches in the basket are like pretty deep... I will maybe try to get some pictures or something later on.

I'm thinking that the fibers were stuck to disks from the wrong kind of oil for some reason. The clutch has never slipped ever so I can throw (at the moment) worn clutch fibers out at the moment..

I have been using Rotella oil and recently changed to some cheap 10w-30 blue walmart oil. I remember it not doing this before when I used Mobil 1 25w-40. I wonder if it's due to me not using synthetic oil.

[MELK-MAN]

its not the oil. Rotella is fine, myself and many use it with no issues for many years.

[MXandSXracer21]

Does the 10W-30 oil that you are using say "Energy Conserving" anywhere on it? They have modifiers that are not good for the clutch.

As far as the clutch basket, you should be fine for a couple more changes of the clutch plates before you need to change the basket.

I would measure the height of the clutch springs to make sure they are still within tolerances. Otherwise you need new clutch springs.

Also, how is your clutch lever adjusted? You should have just enough play in the lever to where you can fit a nickel in between the lever and the perch...if that makes sense.

[idsmokeu2]

Lever and cable are adjusted fine

I said I had recently changed to a cheaper Walmart oil and seems like since then its been slightly worse .

Im not sure if I was using for some reason oil that was not reccomended or what. I am going to check spring tolerances and disks when I get off work andtake a pic of the basket.

[mxscotty]

Lever and cable are adjusted fine

I said I had recently changed to a cheaper Walmart oil and seems like since then its been slightly worse .

Im not sure if I was using for some reason oil that was not reccomended or what. I am going to check spring tolerances and disks when I get off work andtake a pic of the basket.

Sounds like you used car oil which is NOT SUITABLE for wet clutches

[MELK-MAN]

the cheap wall mart oil could have "energy conserving" on the lable, if so the clutch could be slipping (opposite of sticking..). I hightly doubt worn clutch springs are the issue but measure them for minimum service limit length. I purposely use older clutch springs however, as they are easier to pull. Ran some brand new ones and was tougher pull. For faster rider doing mx it might be an issue. For woods riding i never have a clutch slip issue but periodically check the fiber limits (2.85mm thick min) as well as run ROtella blue jug (any decent non-energy conserving oil would be fine on clutch side though). Post a photo of your basekt and inner hup (just pull the fibers/metals out).

[SkyHarborCowboy]

If it worked fine before you changed the oil doesn't it make sense that the oil is your problem to you? Clean all of the parts and run your old oil for an hour or so drain and refill with your old oil and see if things go back to the way they were? If not, put in new fiber plates IF you are sure your basket and hub are not notched too bad and your steel or aluminum plates are not warped!

Joe

[Shawn_Mc]

Id say the oil wasnt heavy enough.

Put some cheap 20-50 in there and try it. I bet it works fine then. You could just buy a quart of the cheapo SuperTech Walmart stuff. The 10-30wt I think is the issue.

Im assuming this isnt an 09 or newer bike? Because if it is, the four spring clutch is a POS and the root of the problem.

[willbilly]

For wet clutch applications the oil should have the JASO MA rating. Rotella Blue (full synthetic) - ok. Rotella Silver (semi syn) - not ok. Rotella White (non syn) - ok.

[idsmokeu2]

Thanks all for the reply. Tore it apart sunday... pondered on it a couple days. Checked tolerances of everything and came to find out that the springs were out of spec.... shimmed the springs via washers for a temp trial run to see if it really was them and it seems like that's the problem.. runs like new again now.. going to just get some.new springs since thy are like 10$ and run them

[SkyHarborCowboy]

Thanks all for the reply. Tore it apart sunday... pondered on it a couple days. Checked tolerances of everything and came to find out that the springs were out of spec.... shimmed the springs via washers for a temp trial run to see if it really was them and it seems like that's the problem.. runs like new again now.. going to just get some.new springs since thy are like 10$ and run them

Spring height (preload) only has an effect on the clutch slipping and pressure on the pressure plate. I don't see his it would have any effect on the symptoms you sighted!

JoeJoe

[MELK-MAN]

i concur SHC..

the beyond spec clutch spring length has nothing to do with the symptoms you indicated in your original post. Weak or severly out of spec clutch springs have the clutch slip, you stated "it never slips". ?? and ya STILL have not stated what year bike your crf450 is.. big diff in the 02-08 clutch, and the 09+ ones

[MXandSXracer21]

The OP is referring to a 2005 CRF.

I had a feeling that weak clutch springs would have been the culprit if it wasn't the oil since it keeps the clutch disengaged.

[grabber_grabbs]

i wonder if running 15w40 in the tranny would be better for the friction disk to disengage from the friction plates... since the oil is a little thicker than the 5W40 (full synthetics)

[Lead Head]

The OP is referring to a 2005 CRF.

I had a feeling that weak clutch springs would have been the culprit if it wasn't the oil since it keeps the clutch disengaged.

The springs engage the clutch. They are what hold all the plates together. Weak springs would make the clutch slip, the opposite of his problems.

[Shawn_Mc]

i wonder if running 15w40 in the tranny would be better for the friction disk to disengage from the friction plates... since the oil is a little thicker than the 5W40 (full synthetics)

I was running 20/50 in mine for a while then I started using the 15/40 Rotella. My clutch and trans still works fine, but the clutch worked better with the 20/50 All Climate Valvoline in there than the Rotella. But its not enough better to go back and have to stock two different kinds of oil etc.

5/40 in the trans isnt heavy enough plain and simple. Youve gotta remember what 5/40 stands for. Its 5wt oil that protects as well as 40 when hot. Its not a multi-viscosity that gets thicker.

Like I said earlier in the thread, try some cheap 20/50 for a ride and I bet its considerably better.

[SkyHarborCowboy]

I was running 20/50 in mine for a while then I started using the 15/40 Rotella. My clutch and trans still works fine, but the clutch worked better with the 20/50 All Climate Valvoline in there than the Rotella. But its not enough better to go back and have to stock two different kinds of oil etc.

5/40 in the trans isnt heavy enough plain and simple. Youve gotta remember what 5/40 stands for. Its 5wt oil that protects as well as 40 when hot. Its not a multi-viscosity that gets thicker.

Like I said earlier in the thread, try some cheap 20/50 for a ride and I bet its considerably better.

Isnt that Blue Rotella Synthetic 5/40wt that everyone runs?

Joe

[Lead Head]

The Rotella Synthetic is 5w40. The Rotella dino 15w40 is what a lot of people run. With how often the oil has to be changed in these bikes, it is (at least to me) not worth the cost of running synthetic, when normal Rotella 15w40 is more than good enough.

[grabber_grabbs]

tried the 15w40 in my transmission this weekend.... nope, simply not compatible with my setup, clutch is dragging like no tomorrow.... no way to put in neutral, no way to stop, the bike want to go forward even with the clutch fully pressed.

changed with 5w40 synthetic, problem solved.

Maybe this was because the weather was cold this weekend.... the oil was probably thicker than what it would normally be during a full warm weather in the summer time... but for now... its 5w40 for me.

[Lead Head]

I've got this feeling that your clutch cable is just not adjusted properly.