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07 CRF450 Suspension Help. Trying to self tune.

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2007 CRF450R

170 pounds

Fast B Rider

Bike originally had 5.7 rear and .47 fork springs, valved for a mix of mx and woods.

I purchased the bike from the owner of a suspension company, so when I bought it he changed the rear to a 5.5 and left the fork springs the same. I was bottoming out everywhere and literally almost killed myself a few times as a result. Brought it back to him and he stiffened up the midvalve. It made the bike much better, but i still thought it dived too much and couldn't handle big hits.

Went off race tech's new spring rate calc. (much more advanced then before), and ordered a 5.6 rear and .48 fork springs and installed them myself with a 365cc outer chamber oil level.

Spring rates felt better, especially on landings, but bike still felt really harsh. I think the valving is just completely out of whack, it never seemed to work right regardless of spring rate. Bike also has FC oil lock collars and outdoor spring seats.

Im pretty confident with doing my own suspension now, just not really sure what to do as far as valving goes. Only god knows whats currently in there. I was thinking of just dropping the money on the racetech gold valves just so I could have a kit layed out for me.

I've been doing more and more research and it seems a stiffer spring rate with slightly softer valving is the way to go. Does anyone have any shim stack recommendations for me? Im sick of paying someone to screw my suspension up, I'd rather do it myself.

EDIT: I was also considering changing the fork pressure springs to the FC 1.76kg, I heard that makes a big difference in the chop.

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have your daddy get your suspension re-valved doofus

you said its valved for woods and mx..*** do you think its going to do?

find the stock shim stacks, re-organize or buy what you need and revalve it yourself or pay someone to put it back to stock.

stock valving is really good, especially on the newer bikes and you'd be surprised how good it can be one its setup with proper springs

take it to kessler or any other shim shuffler in the state and have him gas up the shock and oil.

ps...gold valves are pointless. the stock ones are fine

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those spring rates are pretty stiff IMO

here is the std fork which is pretty decent if you like to charge hard into stuff

CRF 450, 07

OEM Base

16, 30 x .10

1, 28 x .10

1, 29 x .10

1, 28 x .10

1, 27 x .10

1, 26 x .10

1, 25 x .10

1, 24 x .10

1, 23 x .10

1, 22 x .10

1, 21 x .10

1, 20 x .10

1, 19 x .10

1, 18 x .10

OEM Mid

.5 Float !

6, 20 X .10

4, 17 X .10

it says 0.5mm float but im sure its 0.15mm like nearly all of them are.

OEM Reb

2, 20 x .10

1, 18 x .10

1, 12 x .10 Pivot

1, 16 x .10

1, 15 x .10

1, 14 x .10

1, 13 x .10

1, 12 x .10

1, 11 x .10

3, 16 x .30

1,17 x 2.5

here is the 06 450 shock, dont have a 07 but doubt they changed much

shock.........

comp .......... comp

44x.2x(9) .......... 44x.2x(8)

44x.15x(9) ............. 44x.15x(2)

37x.15 ............ 37x.15

30x.15 ............ 30x.15

42x.2x(2) ............. 44x.15

40x.25 ......... 42x.2

38x.3 ......... 40x.25

36x.3 .......... 38x.3

34x.3 ............. 36x.3

32x.3 .......... 34x.3

30x.3 ........... 32x.3

29x.3 ........... 30x.3

28x.3 ........... 28x.3

27x.3 ........... 26x.3

26x.3 .......... 25x.3

25x.3 ............. 24x.3

24x.3 ........... 23x.3

23x.3 ............ 22x.3

22x.3 .......... 30x.3x(2)

30x.3x(1)...............

rebound .......... rebound

40x.2x(2) .......... 40x.2x(3)

24x.1 ........... 24x.1

40x.3 .......... 40x.2

38x.3 ............ 38x.3

36x.3 ............ 36x.3

34x.3 ........... 34x.3

32x.3 ............ 32x.3

31x.3 .......... 30x.3

30x.3 .......... 28x.3

29x.3 ......... 27x.3

28x.3 ............ 26x.3

27x.3 .......... 24x.3

26x.3...........

listed next to it a softer version someone on TT posted.

however i dont like the std or modified rebound on the shock shown, not stiff enough by a long way

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have your daddy get your suspension re-valved doofus

you said its valved for woods and mx..*** do you think its going to do?

find the stock shim stacks, re-organize or buy what you need and revalve it yourself or pay someone to put it back to stock.

stock valving is really good, especially on the newer bikes and you'd be surprised how good it can be one its setup with proper springs

take it to kessler or any other shim shuffler in the state and have him gas up the shock and oil.

ps...gold valves are pointless. the stock ones are fine

Excuse me? Im 21 and I pay for everything myself. I just got back from a race in virgina where I slept in a tent for 3 days next to about 100 semi's and motorhomes. I have holes in my gear and my boots, a 5 year old used bike and I'm probably still faster than you. Never disrespect me again.

Mog, thanks for the starting point, that'll at least give me something to work with.

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it would help very much to know the current valving.

everything else trying to help you is pure guesswork.

With your weight you should be fine with standard springs (mog mentioned this already).

Your bottoming problem is more likely a matter of the valving and not of too soft springs.

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you could definately use the lighter pressure springs. especially with the .48kg's in the forks. it works well for the lighter chop.

on the valving that you have, you'll have to post what's in there to give people a better place to start you at. me, this is where i'd go from the stock valving posted.

18-.10x30

.10x28

.10x26

.10x25

.10x24

.10x23

.10x22

.10x20

.10x18

in the mid try this:

4-10x20's

.10x14

.10x20

2/3.10x16 use .15mm as float guideline you may want to use 3 here and remove a face shim, or use 2 here and keep 4 at the face

stay with stock rebound as you're only 1 size up from stock .47's

i would start with 360cc. if everything good, but need more bottoming

then add 10cc.

.48kg 1.76ics 12c 10r

go get 'em!

it's cool that you are devoted to your racing the way you are.

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you could definately use the lighter pressure springs. especially with the .48kg's in the forks. it works well for the lighter chop.

on the valving that you have, you'll have to post what's in there to give people a better place to start you at. me, this is where i'd go from the stock valving posted.

18-.10x30

.10x28

.10x26

.10x25

.10x24

.10x23

.10x22

.10x20

.10x18

in the mid try this:

4-10x20's

.10x14

.10x20

2/3.10x16 use .15mm as float guideline you may want to use 3 here and remove a face shim, or use 2 here and keep 4 at the face

stay with stock rebound as you're only 1 size up from stock .47's

i would start with 360cc. if everything good, but need more bottoming

then add 10cc.

.48kg 1.76ics 12c 10r

go get 'em!

it's cool that you are devoted to your racing the way you are.

Thank you very much for the help, I really appreciate it. I ordered the 1.76 fork pressure springs, and tomorrow night ill try to tear the forks apart and see what's inside. As far as the rebound stack goes, for 07 the oem fork spring rate is .46, they changed to .47 for 08. Should I still stick with the OEM valve stack?

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what i would start with is put the 10x18 under the crossover, and add 1 .10x20 to the low speed reb. try to start with the reb clicker out at 12, then you may end up going in as far as 9, or out to 14 depending on your preference. if you've gotta go in any further than 8, i would add more lr, maybe another .10x20. it should be good though.

you've really gotta watch how much you do in the fork rebound. factory stacks are pretty good, you can make the handling of the bike suffer by over-tuning the reb in the forks. just remember: if bike tucks, then go out on reb. if bike pushes out of line, then go in. keep your adjustments to one click at a time either way.

this is the basic way of troubleshooting fork rebound. just make sure your sag #'s are correct. the mid and comp schemes should be close. if you feel the bike could stiffen up a bit. what i would do is remove the 18 clamp. this will have an effect on the over-all siffness of the stack.

if you've got any other questions pm me.

Edited by GDI70
too tired

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Shot you a PM with info. Call me and I'll get you set up!

Also I would suggest that you run .47kg in the forks and a 5.5kg in the rear...If you are fast enough you can get away with the rates that you bought.

Also forget about swapping the PS springs not worth it.....

theDogger

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hey i misused a term. i meant put the 18 under crossover in reb, not clamp. sorry 'bout that.

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just took apart my base valve, heres a picture. Why does this look so completely far whacked out?! Still have to measure everything

The stack is layed out right to left in order.

445b31c7.jpg

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just took apart my base valve, heres a picture. Why does this look so completely far whacked out?! Still have to measure everything

The stack is layed out right to left in order.

Why is it so whacked? Looks like a modified stack

shims.jpg

It looks to to be a single stage stack. Looks like a factory Connection Stack. They always really lighten the LSV stack. It drops the into the mid-stroke to quickly:bonk:

LowSpeed(lightened Low Speed)

9-30x.20

HighSpeed (Stiff high Speed)(not sure on the dia.)

1-29x.10?

1-28x.10?

1-27x.10?

1-26x.10?

1-25x.10?

1-24x.10?

1-23x.10?

1-22x.10?

1-21x.10?

1-20x.10?

1-19x.10?

1-18x.10?

Low-Speed-Valve

1-16x.20

8-16x.10

1-11x.20

1-12x.10

1-13x.10

1-14x.10

1-15x.10

1-16x.10

The OEM LSV looks like this

Low-Speed-Valve

1-16x.20

1-11x.20

1-12x.10

1-13x.10

1-14x.10

1-15x.10

10-16x.10

what does the mid-Valve look like? If this is a FC stack I can almost be that it has

3-20x.10

3-17x.10

with a .20float or more:bonk:

theDogger

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Thanks for the quick response, your really helping me learn. With the lightened low speed vavling is that why it feels so harsh, dropping into the mid stroke too quick? Where should I go from here?

I'll try to take apart the mid valve now and see what's there. I still need to find a source to buy shims at, might try to call some local tuners.

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Thanks for the quick response, your really helping me learn. With the lightened low speed vavling is that why it feels so harsh, dropping into the mid stroke too quick? Where should I go from here?

I'll try to take apart the mid valve now and see what's there. I still need to find a source to buy shims at, might try to call some local tuners.

Told ya call me check you PM. I get you hooked up with some personalized stacks and fill you in on where to buy your shims etc...

theDogger:thumbsup:

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Alright ill give you a call in a little bit

I just took apart the mid valve, heres what it looks like.

4e1f61bb.jpg

Is this where you measure float? Between the compression stack and the valve right? If so, it seemed pretty tight, nothing would really fit in there.

74e09074.jpg

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Alright ill give you a call in a little bit

I just took apart the mid valve, heres what it looks like.

Is this where you measure float? Between the compression stack and the valve right? If so, it seemed pretty tight, nothing would really fit in there.

shims2.jpg

Don't measure the float with a feeler gauge:bonk:

Ok the rebound is missing a 20x.10 on the lowspeed side. Normally you never touch the Rebound in the forks...It should look like this

2-20x.10

1-18x.10

1-12x.10

1-16x.10

1-14x.10

1-13x.10

1-12x.10

1-11x.20

3-16x.10???

The MidValve looks like you have this

4-20x.10-(8mm inner dia.)

1-17x.10-(8mm inner dia.)

2-14x.10-(8mm inner dia.)

2-9.5x.10 or .20-(6mm inner dia.)Clamps

2-10x.10 or .20-(6mm inner dia.)Clamps

Collar Length: ?????

1 adjustment shim thickness??????

Easier to measure it like this...(and if you read my DIY thread you would know..)

A=(Total thickness of all 8mm inner dia. shims)

B=(1.0mm recess in the MV piston)

X=(Total of A-:smirk:

C=(total length of the collar and any adjustment shims)

Z=(Float)

(A-:smirk:=X

(C-X)=Z

example of a OEM CRF Showa MV

6-20x.10

4-17x.10

Collar=2.20

(1.00 - 1.00)=1.0mm

(2.20 - 1.00)=.20

Float=.20

theDogger:thumbsup:

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yea what a funky stack that is.

you gotta have more ls comp. if you have too little the bike will wallow like mad.

it will dive too quickly.

when i measure a midvalve, i do it when fully assembled with the correct torque on the nut.

feeler gauges are okay, but you need two of them. a slight "drag" should be felt.

i always look at the stack thickness, but when it's all assembled you will see the true float.

typical really, so many sofen the ls too much.

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Was this a used bike? That stack looks like a Factory Connection stack. They are bad for soft suspension. Almost everyone that I work on with a LSV that looks like that is a Factory Connection job. They all want it stiffer.complain that its a mush box.

theDogger

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lol! that's the truth!

i did a revalve for a guy last week, and i actually did more work than fc did to resolve the "mush box" condition. and he paid me a lot less.

it's "too much too late" style. diminish the valving, load 'em up with fluid.

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Here is what I would consider doing..

Springs: .47kg

405cc Maxima Racing Oil(Green)5wt

Comp:12

Reb:11-12

Fork Height: Standard

Pressure Springs:OEM

Add-ons: FC Oil Lock Collars and the MX Spring Seat. (If you get the spring seat you need to cut a new gutter ring which is 8mm above the OEM one so the pre-load remains the same.Just make sure measure the difference between the OEM ones and the FC MX seats and thats the difference)

COMP :

10-30x.10

1-24x.10

1-30x.10

1-28x.10

1-26x.10

1-25x.10

1-24x.10

1-22x.10

1-21x.10

1-20x.10

1-19x.10

1-18x.10

1-17x.15

Comp Adj: (OEM)

10-16x10

1-15x.10

1-14x.10

1-13x.10

1-12x.10

1-11x.10

1-16x.20

MV (.20mm Float)

3-20x.10

3-17x.10

1-09x.20

2-10x.20

1-11x.20

1.80 Collar

Reb: (OEM)

2-20x.10

1-18x.10

1-12x.10

1-16x.10

1-14x.10

1-13x.10

1-12x.10

1-11x.20

Shock

5.5kg spring

Nitro: 170 psi (yes 170 I know that OEM is 150 psi)

Maxima Racing Oil (Red)3wt

Comp:14-16

Reb:12

HSC:3 out (Add-ons:FC HSC Spring)

RaceSag: 102mm-105mm

Comp:

9-44x.25

1-34x.15

1-32x.15

1-44x.20

1-42x.20

1-40x.20

1-38x.25

1-36x.25

1-34x.25

1-32x.25

1-30x.25

1-28x.25

1-26x.25

1-24x.25

1-22x.30

1-20x.30

Reb:

2-40x.25

1-40x.20

1-26x.10

1-40x.30

1-38x.30

1-36x.30

1-34x.30

1-32x.30

1-30x.30

1-29x.30

1-28x.30

1-27x.30

1-26x.30

-Make sure to face all the pistons(use flat surface and wet sand paper. Figure 8 cc and cc-cw, even pressure)

-Take your time bleeding the forks and shock this is probably the most important part.

-Use one rap of teflon tape around the inner dampener threads with some fork oil when taking the inner dampener out and putting it back together.

-Take your spring seat and open the and smooth the ports out with a port tool or dremel if you do not opt for the FC MX Spring Seats.

theDogger:thumbsup:

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