04 450 Valve Issues (Experts please)

Hey all,

I have been searching the forums for an answer to my questions about the 04 valve problems, and while i have found allot, most just seem to touch on the issue.

I'm an experienced mechanic (aviation stuff) so tools do not scare me (even machines shops) but never have been in a valve train of a motorcycle motor so thats why im comming here first.

Basically I might have a chance to pretty much steal an 04 TC 450 converted for street, extremely clean bike, that is having what seems to me is having the valve problems that are so prominent with this model and year from what I can gather from my searching old posts. The owner doesn't want to put time into fixing it.

Since I will be fixing this myself and not using a shop, my question is what exactly goes into the remedy for these defective valves? Is it as easy as just swapping to 05 valves, and resetting valve clearances? Or does the head need to go to a machine shop for work ? (new seats or something). Are there any how too's that i havent found on the net that will walk me through this?

Thanks guys

Nate

The 04 had smaller stems and the 05 and up will not drop in. Dell West is by FAR the best supplier to after market but $$$. Halls might still sell the SS ones and they should be good if you do the seats. Basically the 04 had to small stems, hard bronze seats (which beat the crap out of the valves) and the supplier was not good (quality). So... you can drop some $$$ and get new valve guides and stuff and go with bigger stemmed valves (expensive / lots of machine work), go with Dell West drop in replacements (good and less expensive), or Halls SS vales and a seat grind (least expensive but might not last as long as the other solutions)

IMHO.

Thanks for the quick reply.

I think I'll go with the dell west valves. Do these valves need a seat grind or can I just drop these in and go? Are there any online manuals/walkthroughs for valve replacements that you could point me to?

Edit: (again) Should be able to buy the del wests from my dealer still?

Nate

Edited by NateZ426

When I bought my '04 TE 510 used six years ago,the valves were shot with 700 miles on the clock. I used the stainless valves and have never looked back. The valves have not moved in countless miles and years of abuse. I had someone do the job for me, so I am not sure on the specifics of the installation process. I do know we used the stock springs instead of the heavier springs however. Just my two cents, good luck.

Moved over to Halls SS valves on my 250 TE 2004 and so far so good, hundreds of hours in it with the heavy duty springs but had to change the valve guides as well. I seated the valves myself, grinding.

One doubt still persists about valve clearance check as manual clearly shows the feeler gauge placed within the rocker arm and the pad and not within the rocker arm and the camshaft as i used to do.

Which one is the correct one??

Thanks guys, I guess the Halls are something to consider.

Ride made it seem like the dell wests were drop ins without the need for a seat grind, is this true? OR will the valves need to be seated nomatter what?

IS there any manual or online guide to doing a valve replacement?? I'm sure this is not covered in the normal service manual...

Also what is the deal with the stock springs versus heavy duty? This is not something i have read about in previous research so far...

I can't imagine any airplane engine that you would just drop in valves without checking guide clearances and seating the valve seats. If the old valves were toast, do you not think the seats are in need of truing up?

Don't get too cheap, and have to do it a second time !!! Grind it !!

I can't imagine any airplane engine that you would just drop in valves without checking guide clearances and seating the valve seats. If the old valves were toast, do you not think the seats are in need of truing up?

I got my airframe and powerplant license with experience working solely with turbines. No valves, camshafts, timing chains, etc etc etc. Also I do mostly airframe work. I'm obviously looking for alittle help here on this valve replacement job. And like I said, Ride's post was alittle ambiguous as to whether or not the dell west valves required a grind.

Could you elaborate on the method for checking valve guide clearances?

Nate

ALWAYS dress the seats for new valves. The HD springs are because the SS valves are heavier. If you are a lugger and not a rever you might be fine with the stock springs but I would run the HD ones supplied with the valves and designed for them.

One doubt still persists about valve clearance check as manual clearly shows the feeler gauge placed within the rocker arm and the pad and not within the rocker arm and the camshaft as i used to do.

Which one is the correct one??

Check between the valve and the rocker NOT the rocker and CAM. It is VALVE clearance hence check the VALVE.

Thanks guys. Might go look at it tonight, we'll see what happens.

Nate

Check between the valve and the rocker NOT the rocker and CAM. It is VALVE clearance hence check the VALVE.

Noted with thanks, will check it again as understand that measurements cna be completely different...

Well got it home for a price that will be well worth it even if the worst were to be the case and i had to source a used head or somthing, but i highly doubt that. Pretty easy to see while i was inspecting it. Doesn't appear to be an actual valve problem as i thought before.

The "valve lifter" as its called on the parts manual on the exhaust cam (next to the right hand exhaust cam lobe) broke right off the cam. So that will need to be replaced. Also, the tab (the part you pull on to pull it out) on the spacer between the two lifters is pointing down instead of what seems to be up would be the proper way, and the right hand valve spacer is missing. Everything else seems to be ok from a good visual inspection. I was thinking of replacing the missing/broken/misaligned parts and trying it out. Any tips here?

Also, i guess i have to consider were that valve shim may have went... i feel like someone is going to suggest a teardown to find it....

Edited by NateZ426

Parts bouncing around a spin 12,000 RPM crank might make a bit of a mess.

Agreed. Ive decided to tear the motor down and rebuild a fresh one. Unless anybody knows of a used motor for sale.

You already have a ''used'' motor, once rebuilt you gonna be sure on the quality of yours :smirk:

Well got it home for a price that will be well worth it even if the worst were to be the case and i had to source a used head or somthing, but i highly doubt that. Pretty easy to see while i was inspecting it. Doesn't appear to be an actual valve problem as i thought before.

The "valve lifter" as its called on the parts manual on the exhaust cam (next to the right hand exhaust cam lobe) broke right off the cam. So that will need to be replaced. Also, the tab (the part you pull on to pull it out) on the spacer between the two lifters is pointing down instead of what seems to be up would be the proper way, and the right hand valve spacer is missing. Everything else seems to be ok from a good visual inspection. I was thinking of replacing the missing/broken/misaligned parts and trying it out. Any tips here?

Also, i guess i have to consider were that valve shim may have went... i feel like someone is going to suggest a teardown to find it....

sounds like the bike spit a shim which can happen. Look for it in front of the front right valve spring, they end up there a lot. If it is not in the head for sure tear down the motor as a hardened shim can and will take out the entire motor. Might look at the magnetic drain plug too. Good luck.

Thanks. Already started disasembly. Found a few other issues im going to slowly make new posts for once i get it all apart.

Nate

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now