AtoMX Ignition Booster

[TaKaI]

Just a quick technical thread on the TaKaI AtoMX Ignition Booster. There is a CDI version and an inductive version so this post will give some good general information on both.

With all electrical systems there are a variety of issues that should be addressed for maximum performance. The AtoMX is one of those devices that resolves a host of issues as well as providing proven performance benefits for ignition systems.

Common electrical subsystems all rely on the quality of the electrical signal and the stability of the voltage provided to the system. As with all electronics it is impossible to receive maximum performance (in our case spark output) if the voltage at the ignition coil input is loaded down, fluctuating and prone to noise (noise being unwanted AC or transient voltages in the DC circuit, in order for DC energy to work well it should have no fluctuation in output).

Typically when a heavy load (loads are connected to the battery or stator and cause voltage drops) such as an ignition system are hooked up to a small battery or stator power drop can occur. This results in an overall loss of energy to the connected ignition system, increased engine load on the stator or alternator and lost engine performance because it needs to provide more energy to these systems.

The TaKaI AtoMX effectively adds a secondary voltage regulation circuit and quality low loss components to allow for fast high energy discharge events without adding any unnecessary load to the stator / alternator or batteries in any system. This allows for reduced engine loads when high demands are placed on the system as well as increased ignition voltage for higher output spark events.

INCREASED ENGINE POWER

Since the input power on the ignition coil is regulated to a higher value it this higher voltage is applied to the coil during it's charge / discharge cycle allowing for a hotter output spark. Higher input voltage also means higher potential output voltage and a hotter spark event. The more energy we can supply to the ignition coils the hotter the resulting output spark will be. Typical systems rely on mechanical energy process and / or a large battery with a potentially high ESR. This has 2 drawbacks. The first being that the battery or the alternator (mechanical energy supply) cannot supply the energy to the ignition system fast enough to provide stable ignition performance. The AtoMX enhances the performance of this system allowing for extremely fast discharge rates. This allows the ignition benefits by being able to supply high bursts of electricity when the rest of the electrical system cannot meaning your ignition system also gets all the energy it needs at all times.

REDUCED EMI and RFI ENERGY

In ALL modern day vehicles what is required is clean power to and from all electronic devices for computer controlled devices to work properly. Erratic energy and voltage signals are a significant source of electronic issues referred to as EMI and RFI interferences. The AtoMX is also designed to provides this additional enhancement of reducing ignition related interference noise in all other areas of the electronics.

The internal circuitry of the AtoMX effectively analysis the input power and then determines if the power in the system is noise or if it is not. If the AtoMX determines that the input power is not proper for the system it effectively analysis the input stream, and dumps interference energy back into the charging system to be "recycled" allowing these devices to work more effectively / efficiently. This also reduces the load on the stator and charging system which as an added benefit frees up engine horsepower.

In this process unwanted RFI and EMI noise interferences are eliminated allowing the onboard electronics to operate more effectively. Many high voltage spikes are eliminated, ringing and oscillations in the system are dramatically reduced and DC energy is more stable.

TaKaI's AtoMX Ignition Booster seemlessly integrates with our ignition coil on many applications and is 90% plug and play. The only wire that will require mounting is the included ground strap.

If anyone has any questions please feel free to ask or contact us at support@takai-racing.com

[pantaz]

Let's see the dyno test results against stock parts. (Back-to-back comparison tests.)

[TaKaI]

Let's see the dyno test results against stock parts. (Back-to-back comparison tests.)

Here is a dyno on a Busa. +2rwhp and has a smoother top end after the install.

This part is an addition to the stock parts and does not replace them.

[highmarker]

save your money and get hollow wires and plugged plugs. http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2&zenid=t0hj89bc6l8qmoi5ucirvhona7

[pantaz]

Here is a dyno on a Busa. +2rwhp and has a smoother top end after the install.

This part is an addition to the stock parts and does not replace them.

That much difference can be seen between runs without modifying ANYTHING. If the "improvement" is that small, you'll need a whole lot of runs (on the same engine) to show the change is consistent.

[TaKaI]

That much difference can be seen between runs without modifying ANYTHING. If the "improvement" is that small, you'll need a whole lot of runs (on the same engine) to show the change is consistent.

These are an average of 4 pulls each.

[pantaz]

These are an average of 4 pulls each.

You quoted the values of the single run chart you posted. Now you claim the numbers are averaged. I have to say that I am highly skeptical. It all comes across as yet another "snake oil" product.

[TaKaI]

You quoted the values of the single run chart you posted. Now you claim the numbers are averaged. I have to say that I am highly skeptical. It all comes across as yet another "snake oil" product.

There are plenty of products that boost voltage to the coils and they all accomplish the same thing, increased rate of charge and higher output voltage. This isn't a new concept or "snake oil" but rather a simple proven principal.

By doubling voltage to the coil you can effectively ~double the output of the coil if the coil is capable. It's called saturation time.

Also, we have a team of professionals that have been tuning and in the industry for over 25 years. We are not laymen that need to be told to make repeated dyno runs when it comes to horsepower to verify the products we sell, it is simply the process that is done day in and day out. We understand dyno tolerance and customer issues when it comes to this stuff.

Also, I hope you don't think your the first individual to claim this and come up with that statement because we have had dozens of others say the same thing and to us and is actually becoming somewhat of a local joke since it doesn't matter how many times we dyno and re-dyno spark plugs and products that show back to back to back gains on dozens of different platforms such as the Ford Duratec, Ford Modular, GM LS, GM LT etc etc etc there is still always a sceptic but the cold hard fact of the matter is that our products are proven to work and some of the best racers, teams and shops in the world will testify to that. Like I said, is there REALLY any point to sending out free equipment anymore? We let our products end up speaking for themselves.

Needless to say we do the best possible to release information that is accurate and dyno'd properly regardless of the sceptics.

[pantaz]

Apparently I'm not allowed to ask tough questions. My response from last night was deleted.

[grayracer513]

Apparently I'm not allowed to ask tough questions. My response from last night was deleted.

There are no deleted posts in this thread.

[MaxPower]

I bought one of these for my YZ250f

I had my doubts.They have a guarantee so I had nothing to lose

I only rode it a 3 times . I dont have a dyno. Im not a techno motor head.

But I will tell you my bike started easier every time.I likes the snap it gave it. And overall make it run like it should.

I honestly thought I was going to be shipping it back. I kind of wish it didnt work. I need the money for other things right now

[pantaz]

There are no deleted posts in this thread.

I'll be happy to send you the screen captures showing the thread before and after.

[TaKaI]

I bought one of these for my YZ250f

I had my doubts.They have a guarantee so I had nothing to lose

I only rode it a 3 times . I dont have a dyno. Im not a techno motor head.

But I will tell you my bike started easier every time.I likes the snap it gave it. And overall make it run like it should.

I honestly thought I was going to be shipping it back. I kind of wish it didnt work. I need the money for other things right now

Glad you enjoy the product, if you ever need any assistance with it please feel free to contact us.

I'll be happy to send you the screen captures showing the thread before and after.

Please do. I would be more then happy to answer your questions and I'm surprised that I never received an email since all responses to subscribed threads are automatically forwarded but if you post your screenshot I will be happy to assist and answer as I would like to help you.

[pantaz]

After discussing things with the webmaster and a couple of moderators, it looks like the missing posts and PMs can be attributed to "hiccups" during concurrent website hardware upgrades.

If you want to see what I saw, here are the screen captures. (Posts 6, 7, and 8 in the "before" image disappeared):

Before...

After...

I will re-compose my missing post.

[pantaz]

Let's try this again...

... Also, I hope you don't think your the first individual to claim this and come up with that statement ...

1. I haven't made any clams. YOU are the one peddling the product and making claims of vast improvements.

2. My "statement" -- that you failed to address -- was pointing out an inconsistency in your presentation of data.

3. You opened this thread with, "Just a quick technical thread on the AtoMX Ignition Booster." When asked for some very basic data, we get one low resolution image of a single dynomometer run. (To be accurate, partial results. All it shows are graphs of HP/Torque and A/F ratio. More data, such as BSFC, would be helpful.)

4. Even if I accept your claim that the chart is an average of multiple tests, it is still only a one percent difference in horsepower. (Oops. I'm asking for accuracy, so let's be accurate: 1.182%)

5. How about the air/fuel fluctuation shown in the chart? How much of the HP/Torque difference can be attributed to that?

[TaKaI]

I never once said "vast improvements" They are performance parts which improve the bikes engine response and hp.

To re-iterate

The A/F is on the chart and ignition systems can lean out the combination it is part of how a higher output spark works. Also, 2-4 hp on a bike is a considerable gain, you would be hard pressed to find anything else in this price range do something similar. You could of course buy an exhaust system for 5x the price, but, that would be the purchasers choice.

Also, in this case, it could be that the manner of your post is why the response was removed since it seems to be getting a little personal since you are trying to create a fight, not ask any new or valid questions. In that case I have no problem that the moderators keep the thread on track, as they are intended to do on a daily basis.

Also, on a more personal note, it is obvious that you are looking for a rise out of me since you are taking screenshots to try and make some sort of point. Please keep in mind that the only reason this thread exists is to share the product with interested individuals, it is not a pissing match, so if you have a question lets keep this civil. Also, so you are aware, I will not participate in internet banter about if I'm peddling, have an unproven product that makes 1% power or making inconsistent claims and will pray that you find a better outlet and peace instead of looking for drama between you and I. There are much better things for me to do with my time, include help customers that are inquiring, need help, or are interested in the product.

In any case, as I stated to someone else. If there are individuals who are interested in the product feel free to ask, but there is no reason to banter about it, we are all adults here.

Regards

[pantaz]

*Sigh* Why is it so hard to get a straight answer out of some people. ?

I never once said "vast improvements" They are performance parts which improve the bikes engine response and hp.

And nowhere will you find that I said you used those words. I said, "...making claims of vast improvements". That means that I believe the claims you have made for your product outweigh any actual enhancements that an end-user will experience. You disagree with my opinion, as I would expect from anyone promoting a product.

To re-iterate

The A/F is on the chart and ignition systems can lean out the combination it is part of how a higher output spark works.

Reiterate what? You made no previous mention of the air/fuel chart, or how it is effected by your Ignition Booster. Actually, I am unaware of any fuel metering systems that modify the A/F ratio based on the spark energy. If there are any papers or publications available that cover this, please point me to them. Seriously.

Also, 2-4 hp on a bike is a considerable gain, you would be hard pressed to find anything else in this price range do something similar. You could of course buy an exhaust system for 5x the price, but, that would be the purchasers choice.

We must have different definitions of "considerable". I would consider a 4 HP gain on a Hayabusa as "good". To reach "considerable" I would need to see at least 8-10, in my opinion. The chart you provided shows less than two horsepower. The same level of gain on something like the CRF450 at 52 HP comes out to only 0.61 HP.

Price hasn't been mentioned before this, so I checked your website. The AtoMX Ignition System Enhancer

is priced at $129.99, Iridium RTYPE Series I Spark Plugs are $10.99, and Iridium RTYPE Series II Spark Plugs are $59.99 (each?)

If it can be shown that the AtoMX actually produces the claimed performance improvements -- "Smoother engine response", "Higher horsepower", and "Better fuel mileage" -- then $130 is a reasonable price. (Claims copied from the product page.)

Also, in this case, it could be that the manner of your post is why the response was removed since it seems to be getting a little personal since you are trying to create a fight, not ask any new or valid questions. In that case I have no problem that the moderators keep the thread on track, as they are intended to do on a daily basis.

As said before, no posts were purposely deleted. Two moderators and the webmaster have confirmed this.

The only time I have made anything personal about this is when you misquote me, and misrepresent what I have said. I ask questions to obtain new information, or to clarify something that I may be misunderstanding. If anything I have asked of you has already been covered, please point me to the answer, because I did not see it before posting the question. If you think something I'm asking is not a "valid" question, just say so. However, I would like to know why it is invalid.

I have no intention, nor desire to "create a fight" here, or in any thread in which I participate. Please, look at my posting history -- here and any other forum I use. (I have the same name on all of them. I'm sure Google can find me in numerous places.)

When you contradicted a previous statement, I called you on it. All I wanted was a straight answer about the dyno results. To be fair, the way I wrote that post probably appears confrontational. I've encountered too many charlatains promoting the latest & greatest. So, yes, I am skeptical by default, and your avoidance of clarifying that contradiction hasn't helped.

Also, on a more personal note, it is obvious that you are looking for a rise out of me since you are taking screenshots to try and make some sort of point.

The screen captures were simply to show that this thread experienced a problem. (You even asked me to post them.) When my posts and PMs disappeared without notice I was upset, and I posted a very restrained response. I also e-mailed ThumperTalk support for their explanation, which I subsequently shared here.

I have participated on other forums where posts, and even whole threads "disappear" when the subject doesn't fit the forum owner's view. So, I've developed a habit of saving my posts, and occasionally whole threads.

Please keep in mind that the only reason this thread exists is to share the product with interested individuals, it is not a pissing match, so if you have a question lets keep this civil.

Please point to any instance where I have not been civil.

Also, so you are aware, I will not participate in internet banter about if I'm peddling, have an unproven product that makes 1% power or making inconsistent claims and will pray that you find a better outlet and peace instead of looking for drama between you and I. There are much better things for me to do with my time, include help customers that are inquiring, need help, or are interested in the product.

The only reason I am still in this thread is because you have not answered several of my questions. You said this was to be a "technical thread", so I have asked a few technical questions directly related to the product and its function.

In any case, as I stated to someone else. If there are individuals who are interested in the product feel free to ask, but there is no reason to banter about it, we are all adults here.

Regards

I don't see much banter going on, but I do see considerable ? obfuscation.

[William1]

........Also, in this case, it could be that the manner of your post is why the response was removed since it seems to be getting a little personal since you are trying to create a fight, not ask any new or valid questions. In that case I have no problem that the moderators keep the thread on track, as they are intended to do on a daily basis.

........

TT does not remove/delete/edit anyones post for expressing an opinion. A strong opinon is a good thing. One of the cornerstones of the USA. TT does not tolerate personal attacks. The rules are clearly spelled out in the FAQs found HERE

A glitch occurred regarding pantaz's post. Apparently, he hit 'submit reply' during the server upgrade last week and his post got lost. I am sure he was not the only one. It happens.

[donny662]

As an electrical engineer, I have to say that I don't understand why this product exists. I can't even figure out what the product is doing that makes it different from a standard CDI ignition.

There is some talk about reducing EMI (electro-magnetic interference i.e. noise) and RFI (radio frequency interference, which is sub-set of EMI) while also storing energy. It sounds to me like you put a capacitor from 12V to ground at the input of the ignition.

TT does not remove/delete/edit anyones post for expressing an opinion. A strong opinon is a good thing. One of the cornerstones of the USA. TT does not tolerate personal attacks. The rules are clearly spelled out in the FAQs found HERE

A glitch occurred regarding pantaz's post. Apparently, he hit 'submit reply' during the server upgrade last week and his post got lost. I am sure he was not the only one. It happens.

There was an announcement that they had to do a "system restore" on the new server and about 24 hours worth of posts were lost. I know that one of my posts was lost.

[TaKaI]

As an electrical engineer, I have to say that I don't understand why this product exists. I can't even figure out what the product is doing that makes it different from a standard CDI ignition.

There is some talk about reducing EMI (electro-magnetic interference i.e. noise) and RFI (radio frequency interference, which is sub-set of EMI) while also storing energy. It sounds to me like you put a capacitor from 12V to ground at the input of the ignition.

There was an announcement that they had to do a "system restore" on the new server and about 24 hours worth of posts were lost. I know that one of my posts was lost.

Not really and sorry I can't get into the technicalities since we are the only ones to use this combined technology on automotive/powersport applications so it's somewhat proprietary and gives us a rather large advantage over our competition. Basically, it increases the overall efficiency of the system with CDI's and voltage energy in inductive applications.

There are several components used to match the components and monitor voltage levels, for obvious reasons the CDI AtoMX and the Inductive AtoMX are 2 completely different units.