Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  

2012 RM Rumors

Recommended Posts

Ok last week I heard a "rumor" that for 2012 there would be no RM 85's. Then I hear that Suzuki has plans to bring back the 2-stroke 125 and 250's. I don't know if there would be changes or they will just import the same models Europe has been selling.

Does anyone know what's up?

4-strokes are killing the sport so AMA please change the rules and bring back the 2-strokes!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ok last week I heard a "rumor" that for 2012 there would be no RM 85's. Then I hear that Suzuki has plans to bring back the 2-stroke 125 and 250's. I don't know if there would be changes or they will just import the same models Europe has been selling.

Does anyone know what's up?

4-strokes are killing the sport so AMA please change the rules and bring back the 2-strokes!

I'm not trying to start a bash but how are 4t killing the sport?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not trying to start a bash but how are 4t killing the sport?

The repair costs of a 4-stroke. I have had several friends who dropped a valve. etc. and the repair cost is so expensive they end up parting the bikes out. Not to mention $3000 to $5000 to mod a motor, $1000 exhaust systems etc. Gone are the days of the average kid working a part-time job and being able to race. The 4-strokes have killed the used bike market because you could be buying a time bomb!

I know the economy is rough and gas prices are expensive but even before that the track owners were complaining of low turnouts. Tracks that used have 5 to 600 riders a weekend were lucky to have 150. Ask any track owner or motor builder and they will tell you mx is on a decline. It will become a sport for the rich or wealthy if things don't change.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yeah i agree... i like the 4 strokes but they do kill the sport. i would have gotten one but they are just wayy to much money for what they actually do. i am very happy with my 125 and repairs cost like next to nothing for the 2 smokes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
. It will become a sport for the rich or wealthy if things don't change.

That is already the case. consider the cost of an average Joe beginning to ride motocross.

(lets say bike is average 3k and its in good running shape.)these prices are local to me.

Bike: $3000

Gear: $1000

Transportation to track: $500 trailer(cheapo utility) or if you own a truck already you have to be well off enough to pay for gas for everyday driving.

Track fees: $30 per track day

Oil and maintenance: $15 per weekend (if good oil is used and bike ridden hard)

Gas to track: average distance for me to a track is 40kms each way. With a truck that equals about $20 per track day. for me 5.9L dodge ram

if you ride 15 weekends per year: your cost is

$5475

That is with 0 maintenance besides oil and 0 modifications. add a top end and thats 6500. $5475 is almost a minimum cost for the kids who want to become someone its well above 10k

Is two strokes really that much cheaper? no but repairs and oil costs do reduce the price of the season.

This thread keeps popping up over and over they probably will bring back the rm250 more and more people are making the cuts and going 2t.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That is already the case. consider the cost of an average Joe beginning to ride motocross.

(lets say bike is average 3k and its in good running shape.)these prices are local to me.

Bike: $3000

Gear: $1000

Transportation to track: $500 trailer(cheapo utility) or if you own a truck already you have to be well off enough to pay for gas for everyday driving.

Track fees: $30 per track day

Oil and maintenance: $15 per weekend (if good oil is used and bike ridden hard)

Gas to track: average distance for me to a track is 40kms each way. With a truck that equals about $20 per track day. for me 5.9L dodge ram

if you ride 15 weekends per year: your cost is

$5475

That is with 0 maintenance besides oil and 0 modifications. add a top end and thats 6500. $5475 is almost a minimum cost for the kids who want to become someone its well above 10k

Is two strokes really that much cheaper? no but repairs and oil costs do reduce the price of the season.

This thread keeps popping up over and over they probably will bring back the rm250 more and more people are making the cuts and going 2t.

Yeah but if you blow up a 2-stroke at least it can be repaired for $500-600 ballpark. If you blow up a 4-stroke you are done. Might as well go buy a new bike.

Now your figures are correct if you buy a $3000 bike every year. But if you ride a 2-stroke you could sell your bike for $3000 and use that money for the purchase of another bike. So the cost of the bike would be a one-time cost minus the depreciation depending on what you are buying/selling.

I would say we spend about 5k a year taking my son racing but I don't look at the price of the bike because we normally sell one and buy another with just a few hundred dollars difference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It would be a smart move for Suzuki to bring back the 2 strokes especially since Yamaha is ending their 2 stroke line!

That rumor has been around every year. Not saying it won't happen but I don't see Yamaha pulling out just yet. What about the YZ 85?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I brand new 250 RM would be nice, OR.... you could rebuild your 04-present RM 250 for about $1000-1500 with all new bearings, fresh motor and suspension, new plastics and graphics and even new grips. Whalah, new bike.

I just did this to my 03(which I unfortunately killed 2 weeks ago), and my 01(which is now my primary bike till the 03 gets fixed).

As for 4 strokes killing the sport, I disagree. People choose to ride them. They are not forced to. A 450 will make a slower guy faster easier whereas a 250 2 stroke would be a bit harder to ride since you must be aggresive on it. Not to put down a 250, I think they are by far the most fun to ride, but a 450 does do some stuff better, but also some stuff worse. Choice is what is killing the 2 stroke. If more interest was shown towards the purchase of 2 strokes, they all would start producing them again. All you 2 stroke lovers need to write a letter to your favorite MFG and let them know. They go off numbers from their marketing departments and if they dont currently offer a 2 stroke model, how can they show sales potential.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I brand new 250 RM would be nice, OR.... you could rebuild your 04-present RM 250 for about $1000-1500 with all new bearings, fresh motor and suspension, new plastics and graphics and even new grips. Whalah, new bike.

I just did this to my 03(which I unfortunately killed 2 weeks ago), and my 01(which is now my primary bike till the 03 gets fixed).

As for 4 strokes killing the sport, I disagree. People choose to ride them. They are not forced to. A 450 will make a slower guy faster easier whereas a 250 2 stroke would be a bit harder to ride since you must be aggresive on it. Not to put down a 250, I think they are by far the most fun to ride, but a 450 does do some stuff better, but also some stuff worse. Choice is what is killing the 2 stroke. If more interest was shown towards the purchase of 2 strokes, they all would start producing them again. All you 2 stroke lovers need to write a letter to your favorite MFG and let them know. They go off numbers from their marketing departments and if they dont currently offer a 2 stroke model, how can they show sales potential.

The manufacturers stopped MAKING 2 stroke bikes, it is hard to buy one if they stopped making them. I have heard this argument before, it is not true, I find it amazing that KTM is SELLING out of 2 stroke bikes. But they have 4 strokes bikes no one wants.

I see 4 stroke bikes sitting at dealers, some are 2009 models I hardly find the argument people did not like 2 strokes - nonsense.

I think the SABBATICAL of spending countless thousands of dollars (aka 4 stroke 250F/450F) like the $1000 exhaust or cylinder head/titanium valves/cam-chain/cam/shims to adjust the valves are not free.

FACTS:

4 strokes cannot sustain HIGH-RPM's period, I remember reading an article about Pro-Circuits race team cost Quadrupled due to 4 strokes.

2 strokes BUILT the sport, it was affordable if a 2 stroke bike does gernade it like top-end and/or bottom-end it is not a total-loss.

Used 4 stroke bikes are like the plague people are afraid of them, even ones that are 'not-ridden' do not sale. I think that is a good sign of the fact, the sabbatical with spending thousands on a hobby on a FRAGILE 4 stroke motor is coming to a head.

An interesting tidbit, 10 years ago you would not find a 2 year old RM125 for sale for $400 because the bottom-end went out from inhaling dirt, lack of maintenance or someone running straight gas through it.

Today, you can find 4 stroke BASKET bikes for about $400 in 250F/450F take your pick it is too expensive to fix them. Something is wrong with this, the logic does not add up. If you bought a gernaded 2008 RMZ250 by the time you bought all of the parts bottom-end/top-end you would be at over $2000 plus. The bike (if it has wear/tear) is not going to bring it.

The other myth, oh the 450F will make a slow rider fast, what the heck??? It weighs in at a hefty 250lbs or more, it is TWICE the displacement and it is hardly a fair comparison.

I love it, 250 2 stroke compared to a 450F, why don't they compare a Chevy 1/2 ton 4.3 v-6 (263ci) truck to a 3/4 6.0 v-8 (364ci) it is the same right???

After all the 6.0 has so much more power when towing and it can tow more weight and it makes a slower driver faster if loaded down... :smirk:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a s-10 with a 4.3 and over 200000 miles and it still walks away from silverados (mobil1 kicks ass). AND I LOVE MY RM 250!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe you misunderstood what I said. Here, I'll try again. Not you, but others opted to buy 4 strokes rather than 2 strokes in the late 90's and early 2000's for MFG's to concentrait on what would make them money, at the time it was 4 strokes. Now, because the 4 stroke sales were so great earlier on, they phased out japanese two strokes. Yes KTM does sell alot of 2 strokes. they are nice bikes, but also besides another Euro brand(of which they are the best of the rest) or a YZ, we have no choices anymore. So of course Yamaha and KTM will sell most of if not all their 2 stroke line, supply is limited and demand grows higher now that people realize the cost involved in owning a four stroke. As for rider ability, it is easier to spin the same lap time on a 450 than a 250 two stroke. Not saying somebody cant win on a 250, but reality is the guys racing a 450 dont work as hard to go as fast. I know from experience. My lap times became more consistant and a bit faster on my 450 when I switched from my 250 2 stroke. Now I PREFER my 250 2 stroke any day over any other size bike. Plain and simple, a 250 2 stroke is FUN to ride/race. Point being, send your favorite MFG a letter stating you wish they would import some 2 strokes here to the US also since you would love to buy one. If they get enough of these letters, it would be foolish of them not to comply especially since KTM and Yamaha are doing so well with their 2 strokes, even if the YZ is unchanged for a long time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would love to see the RM make a comeback here in North Amerca, even if it is just the same old. I'm really loving my RM for racing, and Suzuki offers some pretty good contingency money for one of the series I race. But bike model must not be older than 2yrs.....

What we would all like to see is a resurgence of the 2 stroke, and some new models. Only time will tell.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Demand for 2-strokes is increasing at a dramatic rate...heck even a couple Euro at the pro level are switching to 2-strokes. Believe me/you...if AMA decides to fix the displacement issue (which they wont because the AMA wont let the OEM's do it) you would see even the top pro's in the USA riding SX on 2-strokes again. We can only hope and pray some day the OEM's will stop being bullied around by the AMA and build what sells and what the average Joe blow can afford...Keep our sport alive! :smirk:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mate of mine here in NZ who sells suzuki, told me today that suzuki are no longer manufacturing RM 125 and 250, so sad, but i am glad i got the last of the year that they did manufacture, which was 2008.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I brand new 250 RM would be nice, OR.... you could rebuild your 04-present RM 250 for about $1000-1500 with all new bearings, fresh motor and suspension, new plastics and graphics and even new grips. Whalah, new bike.

I just did this to my 03(which I unfortunately killed 2 weeks ago), and my 01(which is now my primary bike till the 03 gets fixed).

As for 4 strokes killing the sport, I disagree. People choose to ride them. They are not forced to. A 450 will make a slower guy faster easier whereas a 250 2 stroke would be a bit harder to ride since you must be aggresive on it. Not to put down a 250, I think they are by far the most fun to ride, but a 450 does do some stuff better, but also some stuff worse. Choice is what is killing the 2 stroke. If more interest was shown towards the purchase of 2 strokes, they all would start producing them again. All you 2 stroke lovers need to write a letter to your favorite MFG and let them know. They go off numbers from their marketing departments and if they dont currently offer a 2 stroke model, how can they show sales potential.

You may disagree but numbers do not lie. The track owners are seeing attendance waaaaay down and the motor builders etc will tell you the same thing. This was all happening way before the economy crashed and $4.00 gasoline. Who has $5k to mod a motor or $3k to fix a bike that dropped a valve.

People started riding 4-strokes because they had an advantage due to displacment. If you remember a couple years back Coombs tried to his best to make a "true" 250 class but the AMA said no along with the Jap manufacturers. Why? Because a 250 2-stroke would kill a 250F especially in the Pro ranks. There are local Pro's who cannot afford to race because their bikes blew up and they cannot afford to fix them.

It is hurting the sport for the average racers who built the sport and made it what it is today. Luckily we have some local tracks and my kid is still on a 2-stroke or we would probably be at the ball field on the weekend.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

now now

4stroke doesn't have to been expensive..

me and 2 friends go riding at the track every week. I run a 2stroke

they both an rmz450

if you look at weekly costs, i'm waaay higher than them..

i use almost twice the fuel they use, AND i need 2stroke oil for it..

now, with good maintenance the 4stroke will not seize or whatever. The one guy has his rmz450 2006 for 2years now (was a used bike).Only costs.. a piston after like 50-60hours

me? every 30-40 hours new piston

so my cost are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay higher than his.

now, the other guy, also with an rmz from 2006,also used bike, hit his valves last week, his own fault, new timing chain and didn't adjust the spanners (2006 uses manual tensioners)

costs? 2 outlet valves @ 90euros.

Thats really not much..

I must say, we do everything ourselves, and know what we are doing.. so thats the big difference.. Learn your mechanics if you wanna cut costs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Reply with:

Sign in to follow this  

×