Venom Work In Formula 1 Racing :)

a CRF450 engine application you probably didn't know about......

so very glad to be a tiny part of the Formula 1 SAE competition and have met Matthew Birt of Kettering University (GMI - General Motors Institute - where more of your performance engineering heros have come from than your know)

Formula 1 SAE is a collegiate engineering competition where there are restrictions/limitations and then the teams have to design and fabricate a best effort around them....

check out Mr. Birt's new thread in the Venom section on TRX40R.ORG.... i like how you can see the top of the Venom "V" on the Head in the cam picture

looking forward to future testing and sharing with Matthew over the summer months

Copied From Matthew's Birt's posting:

It's been a while since I've posted what we've been up to in beautiful Flint, MI and I know that John is dying to see the car run. I won't give a full breakdown of who we are or what we do, but if you want a more thorough history, check out John's Venom CRF250R writeup and go to our team website: Kettering University Formula SAE Race Team

Our June 15-18 competition in Fontana, California is approaching fast and the car has moved from a bare spaceframe to an almost-complete formula car in one month's time. The Venom-headed TRX450ER motor should fire to life its first time in the next few days. After break-in, we'll have about a week of testing and putting down rubber in the school's Recreation Center parking lot before packing up the trailer for our long roadtrip.

I've created this thread as a way to keep anyone who may be interested up to date with what we're doing. It's going to be an action-packed month.

Before I introduce pretty pictures to this thread, I'm going to lay out the gritty technical details from my powertrain point of view. These are my presentation boards I'll use during design judging:

This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image.

This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image.

That's all I've got for now. I'll be back later with pictures, videos, and lots of test updates.

__________________

Lead Technical Engineer, Kettering University Formula SAE

http://orgs.kettering.edu/fsae/

the cool info didn't post over with the copy....

there is so very much detailed physics that comes into play that you would never think of from the surface.....

lots of cool tech thread possibilities :smirk:

surely someone has something to talk about??!!

This is sweet! I would have loved to do this as a school capstone project. Physics mixed with engineering mixed with lots of adrenalin!

surely someone has something to talk about??!!

On a different note, I just saw you're in medical radiation physics. I design x-ray machines for the security industry. A few of my colleges used to work in the medical field. Good stuff.

John i beleive this is the team thats using a helmholtz resonator and picked up huge power .i have talked to one of the up and coming engineers for the team i never had time to be of much asistance to them .i had atended one of the meets in pontiac @ the silver dome parking lot its pretty intense .

Formula SAE is an awesome design competition for young engineers. I am actually involved in it right now at my university. We haven't been able to compete in a few years due to team reconstruction and funding issues, but we are hoping to be in Michigan next summer!

We are currently running the Yamaha R6 motor but we have also been wanting to make the switch to the single cylinder 450cc setup, since it will translate into about a ~65 lbs weight reduction (including all the ancillary components), as well as an increased power to weight ratio, and simplicity in terms of maintenance.

This is sweet! I would have loved to do this as a school capstone project. Physics mixed with engineering mixed with lots of adrenalin!

BINGO...!! a perfect recipe :smirk:

John i beleive this is the team thats using a helmholtz resonator and picked up huge power .i have talked to one of the up and coming engineers for the team i never had time to be of much asistance to them .i had atended one of the meets in pontiac @ the silver dome parking lot its pretty intense .

they are a bright bunch of tech driven guys... they said they wanted your help, but your schedule didn't allow...so more fun for me :smirk:

Formula SAE is an awesome design competition for young engineers. I am actually involved in it right now at my university. We haven't been able to compete in a few years due to team reconstruction and funding issues, but we are hoping to be in Michigan next summer!

We are currently running the Yamaha R6 motor but we have also been wanting to make the switch to the single cylinder 450cc setup, since it will translate into about a ~65 lbs weight reduction (including all the ancillary components), as well as an increased power to weight ratio, and simplicity in terms of maintenance.

indeed!

the single cylinder makes for less weight...which helps in everything from acceleration to cornering prowess.... the torque curve is more tractible too...AND you get to test stuff you want to think about for your own off road mount... perfect!

indeed!

the single cylinder makes for less weight...which helps in everything from acceleration to cornering prowess.... the torque curve is more tractible too...AND you get to test stuff you want to think about for your own off road mount... perfect!

Ya....all that, but youve gotta look at the out right power too. That R6 makes upwards of 100 hp and probably over 40 maybe 50 foot pounds of torque. It may weigh more, but 100 hp is 100hp when you stick it in the same vehicle. As they say, there's no replacement for displacement...especially when the rev roof is almost twice as high :smirk:

And that's box stock. You've gotta massage a CRF450R pretty significantly to get an honest 60 out of it.

Ya....all that, but youve gotta look at the out right power too. That R6 makes upwards of 100 hp and probably over 40 maybe 50 foot pounds of torque. It may weigh more, but 100 hp is 100hp when you stick it in the same vehicle. As they say, there's no replacement for displacement...especially when the rev roof is almost twice as high :smirk:

And that's box stock. You've gotta massage a CRF450R pretty significantly to get an honest 60 out of it.

True, however, with the 20 mm restrictor, many teams that utilize the 600cc 4-cylinder engine only end up seeing about 60-70 HP unless they do very extensive modifications. The 600cc engines (R6, CBR 600, etc.) also weigh about 125 lbs give or take. The 450 cc single cylinder engines only way about 70 lbs give or take, plus the additional weight savings in the ancillary components (i.e. exhaust, cooling, intake, etc.).

I've heard teams getting about 45-50 HP with the 450cc engine restricted. So in my eyes, a 70 lb engine making 45-50 HP is better than a 125 lb engine making 60-70 HP.

Also, the courses at competition are pretty tight, so must teams don't use all of the power available to them except for maybe in the Acceleration event...barely. I tend to find that the overall focus of the FSAE competitions are reliability and overall suspension geometry/design.

Now that you tell me about the restrictor, absolutely. Trying to get anything done through a 20mm hole is a tough one.

There's a joke in there somewhere!

True, however, with the 20 mm restrictor, many teams that utilize the 600cc 4-cylinder engine only end up seeing about 60-70 HP unless they do very extensive modifications. The 600cc engines (R6, CBR 600, etc.) also weigh about 125 lbs give or take. The 450 cc single cylinder engines only way about 70 lbs give or take, plus the additional weight savings in the ancillary components (i.e. exhaust, cooling, intake, etc.).

I've heard teams getting about 45-50 HP with the 450cc engine restricted. So in my eyes, a 70 lb engine making 45-50 HP is better than a 125 lb engine making 60-70 HP.

Also, the courses at competition are pretty tight, so must teams don't use all of the power available to them except for maybe in the Acceleration event...barely. I tend to find that the overall focus of the FSAE competitions are reliability and overall suspension geometry/design.

right on the money.... the torque curve suffers significantly on the restricted 600cc high revving 4 cylinder....

this is the first season i have had a chance to be part of formula one sae and the only thing i have had a chance to add because of testing time available has been HVP porting to the head.... i made up the term HVP years ago to describe High Velocity Porting.... speed gives more energy and more charge to a cylinder across the band ...no losses...plus better throttle response everywhere...

i wanted to have time to go super high compression and use alcohol based fuel...but not enough time until next year...

preliminary tuning with the HVP has put the engine at 51HP with more power across the band compared to the previous setup...and the biggest boost was in the earlier rise of the torque curve....time to acccelerate out of tight turns :smirk:

Hey guys! Kelley Blue Book got some video of what we've been able to pull through that 20mm hole. Haha.

It might only be 5 seconds of fame at 0:51, but it's the best footage we have of the car from competition. The two featured teams, GFR and ETS, also run singles with the CRF450x and the WR450f.

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