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Moussing in Baja - Expertise Please

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Hey guys -

I haven't been posting much and it's looking kind of boring in here as of late so thought I could give you vets something to sink your teeth into....:smirk:

There has been many a "mousse" thread, but I'm looking for some very specific info. I know the gang here has this covered so if you wouldn't mind:

So on a FRONT mousse only....How are you guys prepping the wheel? I'm guessing ONE rimlock, and taping the rim with duct tape or similar....mousse lube.

In RACE CONDITIONS, AND RIDING AGGRESSIVELY - how many miles are you getting on them IN THE FRONT? (read "riding aggressively" as competitive pace in a SCORE race)

In normal riding conditoins, training to race...desert treks 200+ miles at a time... Riding at speed etc, open desert...What kind of mileage are you getting on them....IN THE FRONT?

What happens when a FRONT mousse goes out on you? Is it total bead failure and you're up shit's creek or can you ride out on a FRONT mousse "flat" / "failure" for a bit before you have problems?

One REAR MOUSSE question:

Upon failure of the mousse....I've heard you are not only up shit's creek but without a paddle, boat...Total meltdown. No way to ride out...do not pass go. I know you can ride out on lots of desert tires with a tube flat for miles and miles.... Why would running a mousse, basically which is a foam tube be any different?... If you lost a REAR mousse in say a 739AT couldn't you just grind it out to the next stop / pit?

Mounting:

I hear guys say that they take an army to mount. I've also heard that some of the legendary baja dogs can mount them with one arm tied behind their backs and one lever.... in the garage, in the dark, underwater.... Which one is it? What's the trick?

Haven't used them...Going to use them. Want to know what I'm getting myself into before it happens.

Thanks in advance Baja dogs...I appreciate it . :smirk:

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Rim locks are not used with a mousse. Save your money and run Bridgestone heavy duty tubes. If you really want to be safe, squirt some Slime in them or better yet:

https://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?A=SME706600_0238940382&An=0

That is my sincere recommendation.

JH I appreciate the input - however as I stated in the post, I'm going to run them....at the very least in the front. I'm looking for info from those running them addressing questions on my post. Regarding rim locks - I've got answers of 0-1-2 off the TT radar, so was looking for clarification from the baja vets and reasons as to why different set-ups with regard to rim locks etc...

Thx JH - much appreciated.:smirk:

Edited by Dane LaFontaine
sp

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I just did a tip run and we all ran mousse tubes in both tires. In fact, I made it mandatory for anybody on the trip because we did not have time to repair any flats with our schedule and anticipated speed.

I race with them in the Utah desert which of course does not have any extended speeds like Baja. I will not race without them, at least I try not to.

I raced Vegas to Reno in '08 and we ran a front mousse only. 570-ish miles, no problems. Bike topped out at about 90 mph.

On the tip run I just did, we ran the same tubes and tires the entire way. 1200 miles. 3 bikes went the distance. No problems. We had some short days (90 miles) and some long days (230 miles). All of the mousse tubes are still in good enough shape that we are still riding with them.

Highway is the killer. We actually had our chase truck pick us up to avoid a long stretch of highway when we got caught late and almost out of gas north of San Felipe. They get hot really quick on the highway. We did a 12 mile stretch and based on how they felt heat-wise we decided not to risk it (this was day 1, we couldn't have a problem that early in the trip). Did not exceed 60 mph on the highway.

I've never had a front fail. I had a rear fall off once because I had broken the bead on the install and didn't know it. I ended up removing the tube and carrying it on my shoulder, and chucked the tire. I rode 8 miles of rock on the rim. Rim held up pretty good actually.

Do not use rim locks. Install is a cinch if you have something to hold the bead down on the opposite side. I use the clamp from ZipTy that they recommend for tire balls. I've seen some tire changing machines that have a breaker bar that works slick, and I've seen others use half a dozen vice grips.

I've never raced Baja so I can't speak to using them in that setting, but I will likely use them anytime I go down for a multi-day trip.

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Very well... have them installed by a bike shop that has experience installing them. Unless you're superman SurfNRide, they are an absolutely P.I.T.A. to install, especially if you've never done it before or never observed someone installing one. If you have the money to run a mousse for casual riding, then you have the money to have them installed. More importantly, there is a thin membrane that encases the mousse and if it is compromised (i.e. torn) it will contribute to quicker deterioration of the mousse, which is why it's beneficial to have someone experienced install them. Also note that mousse's have a shelf-life and start to break down even if just sitting in a box. Try to get a fresh mousse (i.e. one that hasn't been sitting around in a shop collecting dust). They are hard to come by so you likely won't come across a really old one anyway.

Don't run one in the back, seriously. You'll put yourself at great risk of rapidly deteriorating the mousse in a rear tire, especially if you're burning highway miles or riding at high speed over long distances. To the best of my knowledge, no one races with a rear mousse, at least no one that has any experience and knowledge with the vulnerability of running them in the rear. I've heard many horror stories of rear mousses melting and deteriorating very quickly in a rear tire. Frankly, I would trust a Dunlop 739 AT with a Bridgestone HD tube over a rear mousse any day.

As for front, under casual riding conditions, you should be able to get 1,000+ miles on a mousse. It will get soft, but I've seen guys run them until the front tire is nearly "flat" and I know of people making a full peninsula ride on a single front mousse.

Under racing conditions, you can probably get a 500 mile race on one although mine started to break down pretty quickly half-way through the San Fel 250. By the end of the 240 mile race, my front tire felt like the equivalent of 8 lbs.

As the mousse deteriorates, the tire gets softer and softer, but it would need to be heavily compromised before you lose a bead. I always carried four 3' (yes, three feet) zip-ties with me on any Baja trip. If you get a flat (or your mousse breaks down significantly) zip-tie the tire to the rim, in two places on opposing sides of the rim and you won't lose a bead.

Frankly, I don't like bib mousse's. They are too soft and squishy and you have zero control over relative tire pressure. Tire balls are much better, in my opinion :smirk: But, those you definitely won't want to install yourself. They require the might of a hydraulic tire machine.

Edited by Justin Hambleton

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So on a FRONT mousse only....How are you guys prepping the wheel? I'm guessing ONE rimlock, and taping the rim with duct tape or similar....mousse lube.

standard prep, tape, rimlock and tons of lube. tape over the valve core hole.

In RACE CONDITIONS, AND RIDING AGGRESSIVELY - how many miles are you getting on them IN THE FRONT? (read "riding aggressively" as competitive pace in a SCORE race)

4 pits

In normal riding conditoins, training to race...desert treks 200+ miles at a time... Riding at speed etc, open desert...What kind of mileage are you getting on them....IN THE FRONT?

1000+, i run tecate to cabo on them and they are soft at the end, but make it the distance. most total on a front for me is 1600.

What happens when a FRONT mousse goes out on you? Is it total bead failure and you're up shit's creek or can you ride out on a FRONT mousse "flat" / "failure" for a bit before you have problems?

depends on how long you run them for?? i have never experienced a total front failure

Mounting:

I hear guys say that they take an army to mount. I've also heard that some of the legendary baja dogs can mount them with one arm tied behind their backs and one lever.... in the garage, in the dark, underwater.... Which one is it? What's the trick?

just like with tires, skill is key. they are easy once you know the tricks. i have done 4 fronts in about 1 beer (if that tells you anything) when prepping for a race.

Haven't used them...Going to use them. Want to know what I'm getting myself into before it happens.

i don't ride without a front.:smirk:

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I don't really claim any expertise but this has been my experience.....

So on a FRONT mousse only....How are you guys prepping the wheel? I'm guessing ONE rimlock, and taping the rim with duct tape or similar....mousse lube.

1 Rimlock, duct tape spokes, extra lube. I think the trail rider & enduro guys get away with no rimlock

In RACE CONDITIONS, AND RIDING AGGRESSIVELY - how many miles are you getting on them IN THE FRONT? (read "riding aggressively" as competitive pace in a SCORE race)

I just did the NORRA race on 1 front wheel with bib. 1000-1200 miles? Still good, I'll use it till it goes flat, maybe another 500-600 miles. Normally I use my bib mousse in a front race wheel for about 350-500 miles during a race. Then I'll reuse it for trail riding, till it goes flat. I like them squishy. I'm cheap and not very discerning.

In normal riding conditoins, training to race...desert treks 200+ miles at a time... Riding at speed etc, open desert...What kind of mileage are you getting on them....IN THE FRONT?

1500+. Most miles - Preran b1k last year about 2K miles on one bib mousse.

What happens when a FRONT mousse goes out on you? Is it total bead failure and you're up shit's creek or can you ride out on a FRONT mousse "flat" / "failure" for a bit before you have problems?

Happened to me. I used a mousse that was about 4 years old. I guess they do break-down after time. I got about 350 miles out of it. The last 100 miles it felt like <6lbs. No big deal.

Upon failure of the mousse....I've heard you are not only up shit's creek but without a paddle, boat...Total meltdown. No way to ride out...do not pass go. I know you can ride out on lots of desert tires with a tube flat for miles and miles.... Why would running a mousse, basically which is a foam tube be any different?... If you lost a REAR mousse in say a 739AT couldn't you just grind it out to the next stop / pit?

I don't really know, but a 739 is pretty stiff + combined with a mousse sounds not awesome. I would use a Michelin tire. Check out MEFO(?) mousses from MX1 West. They make different sizes for use in all brands of tires. "Technically", Michelin Bib Mousses are only recommended for Michelin tires. FWIW, I've never flatted a rear 739AT, with ExtraHD tubes & slime.

Mounting:

I hear guys say that they take an army to mount. I've also heard that some of the legendary baja dogs can mount them with one arm tied behind their backs and one lever.... in the garage, in the dark, underwater.... Which one is it? What's the trick?

Front, easy. Rear, with 1 rim lock, 2 people. Trick, long tire irons.

I haven't used a front tube in any bike, race or play, for years.

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I'll contrbute my limited Baja/Mousse experience. I had not pre run the start of the 1k in 09. Right after the big jump you went under the road. What I did not see was a 4 in concrete lip that had formed under the bridge. I never saw it and as soon as I hit it I was really glad I had a mousse in the front or my race would have started with a flat. Bottm line, run the mousse in front, heavy duty tube in the rear with about 16-18lbs of air and you are good to go. They are not that hard to mount and you sure don't have to worry about pinchting a tube.

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The 6x bike of Colton Udall and Jeff Kargola (rip OX) had a rear mouse on through Matomi wash before Ox got on last March and they won...JCR wisely ran rear tubes across Diablo Lakebed for obvious reasons but chose mouse through Matomi. JCR uses mouses front and rear, no question, but does so very selectively.

MotomanX has got to be one of the (if not "the") best sources for Baja technical info posting here on TT. His advice is proven and I would never question it is a situation where I asked and he delivered.

I watched a top pro contender who can back his talk...last November on my pre-run to La Paz this top pro took 6-8 minutes to change a tire by hand, installing a used mouse and doing something very unique. He circumcised a used HD tube down the inside raphe*** and used the flattened rubber tube as an extra layer between the tire and the mouse. It looked like he was doing this to add some rigidity to the rear tire (ie simulating slightly more pressure)

I pay my favorite shop C&D Cycle Center in SD to install my mouses. It costs more than a tube change but I am like Ann B Davis (Alice) on the Brady Bunch...I just need that extra help. From Tecate-Cabo last month, I changed the gearing on my 650 shorter from 15:47 to 14:47 for the purpose of slowing the top speed down. On HWY I'm sure I never went past 70 MPH for more than a second. I think you will be fine on mouses front and rear.

I sure miss the Flyin Shitake on here lately he has gone over 100 even on HWY sections...He has different views on this subject and I appreciate them because he can also back his talk.

Not too bad for post #2000... hey JAT: I'm gaining on you

***http://www.health.medicbd.com/wiki/Raphe

Edited by Scotty Breauxman
raphe-its that seam that runs down your ball satchel- for those who have one

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Man you friggen' guys never dissapoint! Thanks to all of you for your input. I REALLY appreciate it...:smirk:

Wanted to ascertain if mounting them up was something practical for me to tackle, given I try to do as much of the set up on my ride as possible. Based on all your advice, I'll pay those in the know to get those handled until Mexihonkey or SNR start up their "mousse clinic" or I get some practice mounting a few.

If any of you wanted to chime in, one last queston:

----Is the lube actually intended to keep the mousse from breaking down at all or is it's primary purpose to just aid in mounting?

Thanks all and for those of you headed down for the 500, have fun and race safe! :smirk:

Edited by Dane LaFontaine
sp

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Man you friggen' guys never dissapoint! Thanks to all of you for your input. I REALLY appreciate it...:smirk:

Wanted to ascertain if mounting them up was something practical for me to tackle, given I try to do as much of the set up on my ride as possible. Based on all your advice, I'll pay those in the know to get those handled until Mexihonkey or SNR start up their "mousse clinic" or I get some practice mounting a few.

If any of you wanted to chime in, one last queston:

----Is the lube actually intended to keep the mousse from breaking down at all or is it's primary purpose to just aid in mounting?

Thanks all and for those of you headed down for the 500, have fun and race safe! :smirk:

Lube helps from breakdown, Use lots of it.

Less Friction = Less Heat

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I will give you my bib feedback. It doesn't pertain directly to Baja, but it seems that Scotty and Justin have you plenty covered there. My experience is with other forms of desert/off road racing.

I run one in the front. I love it. To your direct questions....

Mounting it isn't easy, but not impossible. It is the same as a regular tube and tire, just more effort on each step. I can do it in under 10 minutes, but it isn't fun.

No rimlock. I've tried both, but the rimlock adds nothing other than headaches during install.

Mileage....if a number has to be put on it, I would think 6-800 is the most I have run. As it gets older, you can definately feel it. Some may be more picky than me. My telltale sign is when it looks flat in the bed of the truck when the tiedowns are snug.

Lube, use it. All of it. I use whatever I have around. Michelin gives you an embarassingly small amount. I use handfuls of axle grease, Vaseline, KY...whatever is around. I can say it does help in the longetivity of the bib.

I have seen some top Baja guys use them in the rear. They are running far faster than I ever will. I would have no problem running one, but I think there is a lot to be said for the strategy and selectivity JCR uses on when they are used.

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never used em before, but i went to erzberg last year and they all run used ones over there. trying to find a used mousse in austria was impossible, so we ended up drilling holes in 2 new ones. it worked well. speed was not a factor though. if i was a solo racer, i would do what mexihonkey does, except eat some of the food he likes

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My experience is only in racing Score in Baja. No trail riding, no pre running, no Ensenada to the tip, only racing 4 entries in the Baja 1000's and two each in the SF 250 and Baja 500's bike entries.

93 Baja 1000, Class 30, with 5 racers on an 91 XR 600, Bib in front, HD tube in rear, back when there were no highway speed limits. Ran 3 rear wheels and orginal front wheel for 1,050 miles, Ensenada to La Paz. Front was squishy when we arrived in La Paz the next morning, but was still holding up. Finished 10th in Class 30.

06 Baja 1000, Class 21 on an 07 Husky TC 450, and Class 30 on an 06 Husky TC 510. Ran BM's front and rear from Ensenada to La Paz. Same front on the Class 21 bike, two rears. Two fronts on Class 30 bike (one wheel came apart at the spokes right before EL Arco, and had to be changed) and two rears. Class 21 bike got 4th in class, class 30 bike took 8th in class. Gearing was 16/46 on Class 21 Husky and 16/44 on Class 30 Husky. No issues with any of the Bib's.

07 SF 250, Class 21 and Class 30, same bikes, one set of tires for each entry, start to finish, Bib's both sets of wheels. 15/46 gearing in both bikes. One bike ran Michelin's Baja's frt/rear, and the other bike ran Dunlop D-606's front/rear. Bib's held up great! 4th in Class 21 and 8th in Class 30.

07 Baja 500, Class 21 and Class 30, same bikes. Same gearing. Same tire selection. Both bikes used 1 rear tire each(orginal starting wheels) for entire 476 mile race, with no issues on Bib's. 4th in Class 21 and 8th in Class 30 again.

07 Baja 1000, Class 21 Husky TC 450, same bike. 16/44 gearing. No wheel issues in first 300 miles. Same type of wheels and bibs used. 2 Hurt Riders forced DNF at San Quentin.

No Bib failures in all these races. Front bibs not affected by heat from what I can see, pavement of dirt. Rear Bibs are rated for up to 80 mph before melting, on pavement only.

On dirt, we saw no issues at all. Since SCORE has a 60 mph rule on highways, no issues on either our 450 or 510 with melting issues. Bibs are all dated. We only used Bibs that were under 1 year old. They came from France.

I can't speak for others that have had issues with them.

They held up great for our team of two open class bikes.

A winning Class 21 bike, racing a 2 stroke Yamaha for years, ran them front and rear with Michelin tires with 0 failures as well. The rider of records first name is Joe, and he races for DP Racing. You can ask him his experience with Bibs over a 5 year period of Score racing. They never had wheel issues with bibs and 0 flats of course.

I would definitly use one on a long (700+ mile) Baja trail ride if I didn't want to worry about flats. I have also ran HD tubes and tires on trail rides and been fine too. But I hate changing tires in the middle of no where by myself.

We have a tire specialist in EL Cajon mount ours for $50 each. We mount it using tape over the spokes, tape the valve stem hole, and run one rim lock per wheel, taped over inside as well. The rim lock is in case we have to remove the bib during the race and run a tube instead. Otherwise, the rim lock is not needed for the bib to work.

I hope this helps. Don't just take my word on this. Ask the guys that raced on my team about Bibs and how well they work. They are Joey Lane, Mitch Sanchez, Freddie Willert, Eddie Zeller, Jorge Lizzarga, and Dana Reed:lol::ride:

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Rim locks are not used with a mousse. Save your money and run Bridgestone heavy duty tubes. If you really want to be safe, squirt some Slime in them or better yet:

https://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?A=SME706600_0238940382&An=0

That is my sincere recommendation.

Same opinion here... I live in Chile, and have Dakar for 3 years so far. Did and finished one....and ran out of budget since then:smirk:. I still keep running our National Rally Championship and have tried tubes, mousse only front....and both wheels.

My conclusion is that if you are a serious top racer, like Dakar first top ten racers....you have the budget and the crew to change tires and mousse every day....like they in fact do, and I can prove it ¡¡¡¡

On the other hand, for most mortals like me .....you have to run with a set-up that will withstand the whole race....or at least 3-4 days like our races in Chile. I have ended definitely with no mousse rear ¡¡¡ just a x-heavy duty tube and slime, had no flats since i dont remember.

Concerning front wheel, thats a whole different story. I use mousse and one rimk lock if the course will be rocky....and not longer than a month. If we are running dunes I still stick to a front x-heavy tube and slime...and two rim locks..... a more budget friendly set-up. Had one flat in six months, and my Pirellis MT 21 allowed me to finish that day:ride:

My two cents.

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My experience is only in racing Score in Baja. No trail riding, no pre running, no Ensenada to the tip, only racing 4 entries in the Baja 1000's and two each in the SF 250 and Baja 500's bike entries.

93 Baja 1000, Class 30, with 5 racers on an 91 XR 600, Bib in front, HD tube in rear, back when there were no highway speed limits. Ran 3 rear wheels and orginal front wheel for 1,050 miles, Ensenada to La Paz. Front was squishy when we arrived in La Paz the next morning, but was still holding up. Finished 10th in Class 30.

06 Baja 1000, Class 21 on an 07 Husky TC 450, and Class 30 on an 06 Husky TC 510. Ran BM's front and rear from Ensenada to La Paz. Same front on the Class 21 bike, two rears. Two fronts on Class 30 bike (one wheel came apart at the spokes right before EL Arco, and had to be changed) and two rears. Class 21 bike got 4th in class, class 30 bike took 8th in class. Gearing was 16/46 on Class 21 Husky and 16/44 on Class 30 Husky. No issues with any of the Bib's.

07 SF 250, Class 21 and Class 30, same bikes, one set of tires for each entry, start to finish, Bib's both sets of wheels. 15/46 gearing in both bikes. One bike ran Michelin's Baja's frt/rear, and the other bike ran Dunlop D-606's front/rear. Bib's held up great! 4th in Class 21 and 8th in Class 30.

07 Baja 500, Class 21 and Class 30, same bikes. Same gearing. Same tire selection. Both bikes used 1 rear tire each(orginal starting wheels) for entire 476 mile race, with no issues on Bib's. 4th in Class 21 and 8th in Class 30 again.

07 Baja 1000, Class 21 Husky TC 450, same bike. 16/44 gearing. No wheel issues in first 300 miles. Same type of wheels and bibs used. 2 Hurt Riders forced DNF at San Quentin.

No Bib failures in all these races. Front bibs not affected by heat from what I can see, pavement of dirt. Rear Bibs are rated for up to 80 mph before melting, on pavement only.

On dirt, we saw no issues at all. Since SCORE has a 60 mph rule on highways, no issues on either our 450 or 510 with melting issues. Bibs are all dated. We only used Bibs that were under 1 year old. They came from France.

I can't speak for others that have had issues with them.

They held up great for our team of two open class bikes.

A winning Class 21 bike, racing a 2 stroke Yamaha for years, ran them front and rear with Michelin tires with 0 failures as well. The rider of records first name is Joe, and he races for DP Racing. You can ask him his experience with Bibs over a 5 year period of Score racing. They never had wheel issues with bibs and 0 flats of course.

I would definitly use one on a long (700+ mile) Baja trail ride if I didn't want to worry about flats. I have also ran HD tubes and tires on trail rides and been fine too. But I hate changing tires in the middle of no where by myself.

We have a tire specialist in EL Cajon mount ours for $50 each. We mount it using tape over the spokes, tape the valve stem hole, and run one rim lock per wheel, taped over inside as well. The rim lock is in case we have to remove the bib during the race and run a tube instead. Otherwise, the rim lock is not needed for the bib to work.

I hope this helps. Don't just take my word on this. Ask the guys that raced on my team about Bibs and how well they work. They are Joey Lane, Mitch Sanchez, Freddie Willert, Eddie Zeller, Jorge Lizzarga, and Dana Reed:lol::ride:

THANK YOU SIR! I really appreciate all the info and wiill put it to good use!:lol:

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Same opinion here... I live in Chile, and have Dakar for 3 years so far. Did and finished one....and ran out of budget since then:smirk:. I still keep running our National Rally Championship and have tried tubes, mousse only front....and both wheels.

My conclusion is that if you are a serious top racer, like Dakar first top ten racers....you have the budget and the crew to change tires and mousse every day....like they in fact do, and I can prove it ¡¡¡¡

On the other hand, for most mortals like me .....you have to run with a set-up that will withstand the whole race....or at least 3-4 days like our races in Chile. I have ended definitely with no mousse rear ¡¡¡ just a x-heavy duty tube and slime, had no flats since i dont remember.

Concerning front wheel, thats a whole different story. I use mousse and one rimk lock if the course will be rocky....and not longer than a month. If we are running dunes I still stick to a front x-heavy tube and slime...and two rim locks..... a more budget friendly set-up. Had one flat in six months, and my Pirellis MT 21 allowed me to finish that day:ride:

My two cents.

Thank you! Much appreciated!:ride:

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Hey guys -

I haven't been posting much and it's looking kind of boring in here as of late so thought I could give you vets something to sink your teeth into....:ride:

There has been many a "mousse" thread, but I'm looking for some very specific info. I know the gang here has this covered so if you wouldn't mind:

So on a FRONT mousse only....How are you guys prepping the wheel? I'm guessing ONE rimlock, and taping the rim with duct tape or similar....mousse lube.

In RACE CONDITIONS, AND RIDING AGGRESSIVELY - how many miles are you getting on them IN THE FRONT? (read "riding aggressively" as competitive pace in a SCORE race)

In normal riding conditoins, training to race...desert treks 200+ miles at a time... Riding at speed etc, open desert...What kind of mileage are you getting on them....IN THE FRONT?

What happens when a FRONT mousse goes out on you? Is it total bead failure and you're up shit's creek or can you ride out on a FRONT mousse "flat" / "failure" for a bit before you have problems?

One REAR MOUSSE question:

Upon failure of the mousse....I've heard you are not only up shit's creek but without a paddle, boat...Total meltdown. No way to ride out...do not pass go. I know you can ride out on lots of desert tires with a tube flat for miles and miles.... Why would running a mousse, basically which is a foam tube be any different?... If you lost a REAR mousse in say a 739AT couldn't you just grind it out to the next stop / pit?

Mounting:

I hear guys say that they take an army to mount. I've also heard that some of the legendary baja dogs can mount them with one arm tied behind their backs and one lever.... in the garage, in the dark, underwater.... Which one is it? What's the trick?

Haven't used them...Going to use them. Want to know what I'm getting myself into before it happens.

Thanks in advance Baja dogs...I appreciate it . :lol:

Bead buddies are the best 'trick' we've found, used when Bib already in tire and 'half-way' on. Helps push the other side of the bead into the spoke valley and give the bead more room to flex when pushing in those very critical last bites without breaking the tire.

We have used Bibs front and rear for 5 years now with great success in Baja and BITD. Rears do melt quicker with faster riders aboard, but the last two Baja 500's (including this weekend) we ran the entire race with one set front and rear on the KTM 530 - 8x team with mixed riders/Pro and Expert. Rear was close to toast though. We run 1 rim lock in the rear and none in the front.

On the other Pro Team I was associated with - 2x last year we planned to change the rear wheel at half-way since we had all fast Pro riders on that team and didn't want a Bib to go. Unfortunately they didn't change at the half-way, miles later the Rear Bib and Wheel were destroyed. In addition, they didn't run a rim lock in that rear wheel and it was a DNA wheel set. We also broke a DNA rear wheel in V2R last year. I'm not bashing anyone who prepped that bike, nor any companys product just stating the facts.

We have found that Fronts can make it the whole race (500 that is), the rears can be an issue though.

PS: My opinion you still can't go wrong with a D606 and heavy duty tube in the rear though.

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