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Oregon OMRA rules issue

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I protest the determination that resulted in the open ams points denial at Eddieville May 15. I thought that my two page letter was clear enough , let alone the emails back and forth between Ed Arinello and I. I was not aware that promoters were held to a tougher standard than OMRA officers.

The protest was not handled properly and should be summarily overturned. The rider clearly did not follow the rule book, on bottom of page 16 and the top of 17.

11) Protests and Appeals:

a) All protests of rider, machine, or rule violations, must be clearly stated in writing

and must be presented to the Referee (or acting Referee) of the club promoting

“Protecting your right to ride!”

OMRA Rulebook 17

the event not later than one hour following the termination of the event in

question, or, if results are posted at the event site, one hour after the posting of

results. (A protest fee of $25 may be required, at the discretion of the Referee.) If

the Protest is found valid, the protest fee will be returned to the person making

the protest. If the protest is not found valid, the protest fee will be forfeited and

given to the person protested. No tear down fee is required.

The protest was clearly not handed to the club or club referee since I have yet to see it.

I can not seem to find the rule governing start time protests.

I did find on page 28 under OPERATIONS

A rider’s meeting will be held before the start of a GP event. It is the responsibility of

the rider to attend the meeting. The promoter will discuss the rules, track conditions

and safety issues at that meeting. Playing the National Anthem at the rider’s

meeting is also encourage.

( I thought that was exactly what I did.)

If this message meets the criteria of a appeal to a protest, which I intend it to be, I would appreciate a determination of WHAT I SHOULD HAVE DONE UNDER THE CONDITIONS.

I have included my post that I thought was the appeal of the decision that I was never a part of.. I would appreciate showing me the location of the rules that the protest was based on and the change of rule that doesn’t include the club/promoter.

I did not respond to LIZ Green’s email because I didn’t know for sure how I could protest an issue that was never presented to me. I have never been privy to the contents of the protest which makes me feel like a mushroom.

AGAIN, I formally appeal the decision to uphold an invalid protest.

This post is about injustice. In this case, as well as others in the past, the injustice is to racers who show up to race in a timely fashion, register, go to rider’s meetings, and then are stripped of their points by a protest from a rider who shows up barely before the scheduled race, and misses or is late to a rescheduled race.

The latest incident happened at Eddieville at the May15 race. After over 1 inch of rain fell Saturday night and most of Sunday morning I had to make a decision. The way I saw it, I had 3 options.

(1) Cancel the race since the track was almost impossible to walk on, let alone ride a bike.

(2) Hold the race on the existing course and see if anyone could finish a lap, let alone 4 or 5 laps.

(3) Layout a complete new course in the grass and hope it holds up.

I chose the third option. At the rider’s meeting I mentioned we would start the amateurs and expert races together at 12, as we could not finish staking the course to be ready for 11. As it was, we finished around 11:30, but I didn’t know that when I announced at the rider’s meeting at 10:30.

So…. The main reason for not starting both classes at 1 was that I had 3 riders who scheduled their day between racing, work ,and family and they could not wait that long. One rider couldn’t wait till noon and got his entry back and left. The other 2 stayed and raced. Evidently their rights are not as important as the late rider’s rights. Or maybe I should have let everyone wallow in the mud instead.

I understand a protest was filed by an open amateur who arrived around noon. We started at 12:10. I have always said you should arrive at least an hour before the race time for contingencies, other late sign-ups etc causing a jam, etc. I think it is unfair to make the people who show up for the rider’s meetings have to sit on their bikes and wait for someone who’s entering late . So who is getting penalized? Not me, I got the entry fee. The open amateur riders who showed up on time, paid their fee and were ready to race are the one’s that get the shaft.

OMRA evidently feels that start time is sacred. At least for the late rider. But how about a protest from the rider who plans to race at 11:00 and can’t wait till 1? Or even noon?? The promoter seems hosed in either case if I vary by 1hour? 30 minutes? Or could it be 5minutes? It’s evidently a Race Committee decision. I’m not sure what the referees are for anymore other than to convey the protest to. But than again, you only need referees if there are two or more parties involved.

Not getting to present my side or so much as getting a heads up rankles me. I believe it’s called a kangaroo court when only one side gets to speak.It’s a matter of fairness for the other riders that allow time to get there and be ready rather than come in on a wing and a prayer and protest when it doesn’t work out. If everyone shows up at 12:50 and we can’t get them all signed up in time, looks like we are open for protest.

I’ll be curious about what ,if any, official determination I get as to what I SHOULD have done.

But here’s what I am going to do. We will post on our website and flyers that anyone that misses the riders meeting will void any option to protest results for any reason. I think it is a dangerous position for the OMRA to encourage riders to show up when they want. In the case of riders getting injured by not hearing the rider’s meeting, who is liable? The AMA requires riders to attend the rider’s meeting, to not do so invites lawsuits.

I will continue to adjust schedules ,if needed, to make for a better, safer race. If the OMRA does not believe this is the right approach, they can pull all my remaining sanctions and I will continue to run events to benefit the rider as best as we can. There is no doubt in my mind that I made the right call to delay the race and create a new grass track. Everyone seemed to have a pretty good time and the track was not unridable anywhere.

The NMA has a take it or leave approach to their races. Maybe that is why their membership is down 50% and fewer locales to run their events. I hope the OMRA is not trying to follow that path.

In addition, with the events going on and the general attitude towards my races, I will not turn my team races over to the OMRA next year. I built the team concept up, and I will not relinquish control when the rights of many are stomped on for the benefit of a few, or so that they can force riders to go to other style events. I built the team races up without OMRA help, let the others develop their “extreme team” races on their own.

If this seems like sour grapes…. It is and I apologize. But I find since my back surgery that I want to ride, now that I can, I don’t care to battle or get into name calling. There isn’t enough money in racing to put up with a bunch of B.S. when I could be riding or racing myself. Let some of the complainers put their money where their mouth is and build tracks and races, I just wanna ride!

Scott Doubravsky

Over The Bars Gang

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I was there the day before and attended the riders meeting. By the way Scott, the track was super fun! Way better than the spring opener! As a paying racer (who attends meetings...Because I thought you we're supposed to), I do not want to lose my points for this race!

If I do lose my points, I would expect:

1. A refund for that race.

2. Re-schedule a free "do over".

This whole OMRA racing circuit is supposed to be fun. We plan weekends around races. If I have to work, I'm not racing. Trying to squeeze-in a race is silly...There a way too many variables (Weather, crashes, mechanicals, etc.).

In a 1 vs 50 battle...I sure hope the majority wins!

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There isn’t enough money in racing to put up with a bunch of B.S. when I could be riding or racing myself. Let some of the complainers put their money where their mouth is and build tracks and races, I just wanna ride!

Scott Doubravsky

Over The Bars Gang

right on!

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Sounds like you made the right decision to try to put on a safe, fun and manageable race that day by creating a whole new course. Not many other venues would do that, they would just cancel.

Races get delayed...part of life...deal with it.

Edited by MX813

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I understand a protest was filed by an open amateur who arrived around noon. We started at 12:10. I have always said you should arrive at least an hour before the race time for contingencies, other late sign-ups etc causing a jam, etc.

Sounds like he was close to arriving that hour early for his scheduled 1 o'clock race.

I have no dog in this fight, but it seems the simple solution would of been to start the race for everyone at 1pm.

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I understand a protest was filed by an open amateur who arrived around noon. We started at 12:10. I have always said you should arrive at least an hour before the race time for contingencies, other late sign-ups etc causing a jam, etc.

Sounds like he was close to arriving that hour early for his scheduled 1 o'clock race.

I have no dog in this fight, but it seems the simple solution would of been to start the race for everyone at 1pm.

What about the 2 guys who couldn't wait?

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This aint tennis as I have been told - you dont show up, walk on the court and go at it.

Everyone knows you have gate fees, sign up, tech/sound check (some places),Riders Meeting, get geared up, gas and warm up the bike, all that in itself take more then an hour.

The riders meeting is to inform racers of the days events, safety issue, course conditions, changes etc. If you dont show up for this then you are uniformed and unprepared for any format, safety or course changes.

Bummer for one guy to show up late and miss his race, bigger bummer for an entire class of guys who showed up on time to loose their points and effort

OTBG does a good job they busted ass to save this race and provide a rideable course for everyone. I applaud their continued effort to provide riding opportunities for us all.

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Hey now...what's with the shot at the NMA? Jeez...we have a kick ass series with multiple venues and formats.

I say if a guy is showing up at 12:50 for 1:00 race he is not going to make the start anyways. Tough luck...but that's just my NMA attitude :smirk:

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Great feedback, keep it coming. There are always more than one way to look at an issue. Lets hear it: the good bad and the ugly.

Joe.......

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Scott, Maybe you should think about closing sign ups an hour before a race starts. 10am race sign ups are open from 7-9, 1 pm race sign ups open from 10-12. If a rider shows up in the sign up line at 12:05 for the 1pm race he will not be allowed to race.

That will also give Debbie some to relax and take a breathe during the day.

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Great feedback, keep it coming. There are always more than one way to look at an issue. Lets hear it: the good bad and the ugly.

Joe.......

I am sure Scott would like an OMRA exec. to share the actual protest with him.

Just saying....

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Well I'm new to the Oregon area. I come from Texas and race the TSCEC curcuit there, sounds like the OMRA has alot of the same attitude as TSCEC, IT SUCKS!!! After reading this issue I don't think I'll be riding any OMRA events, I don't like all the drama! I have promoted and layed out enduro's in Texas for years, so I know what Scott is going through. Without the promoters like Scott doing what he does there wouldn't be any racing. So with that being said PUT YOUR BIG GIRL PANTIES ON AND RIDE. You can't please everybody so don't try, do what is best for the majority and go on.

troublemaker

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That is just what everyone does not want, people getting a sour taste because of one issue. The current issue is being addressed and WILL be resolved.

Joe..........

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OMRA just like any other organization is made up of everyday people working for free to make fun riding opportunities for us to ride.

Everyone makes mistakes and resolution is a process - I am sure people are looking into this, and working to come up with a solution.

I am glad we have org's and clubs who work hard to have places and events for us to ride at.

I applaud them all.

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I think if a race is supposed to start at 11 oclock, thats when it should start, if a rider is not there and ready they miss out. I realize this race had special circumstances due to the weather, but just in general if the promotor stuck to a more rigid schedule it would present less hassles for them and all the racers attending. I don't think its right for a whole starting grid full of people sitting there for a long period of time waiting on a few. Advertising the start time as 11ish seems to only complicate this issue. Starting the 11 oclock race at 11 and the 1 oclock race at 1 would help eleminate a lot of ambiguity in the future.

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I think if a race is supposed to start at 11 oclock, thats when it should start, if a rider is not there and ready they miss out. I realize this race had special circumstances due to the weather, but just in general if the promotor stuck to a more rigid schedule it would present less hassles for them and all the racers attending. I don't think its right for a whole starting grid full of people sitting there for a long period of time waiting on a few. Advertising the start time as 11ish seems to only complicate this issue. Starting the 11 oclock race at 11 and the 1 oclock race at 1 would help eleminate a lot of ambiguity in the future.

Did you read the part where he said he changed the times for a valid reason?

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I agree that Scott and Debbie do all they can to run a safe and fun place to ride. For anyone who hasn't run out here when the ground is sloppy, riding on a greasy ice floe comes to mind. I applaud Scott for altering the course and start time to make it safe and fun.

If there is a gripe from one rider, then there is a gripe from one rider. I don't agree with pulling all of the points from everyone else who was racing that day. It seems that the sanctioning body would be able to work something out without everyone else losing their earned points for an event.

I think that one of the easiest ways to help prevent something similar to this in the future would be to post that signups will close at a predetermined time. One or two hours before gate drop would be sufficient in my thinking.

Also, state that a rider who misses the riders meeting won't be able to race. Although, I think that enforcing this would be tougher.

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I am sure Scott would like an OMRA exec. to share the actual protest with him.

Just saying....

YEP!!! ......Still waiting.......

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Hello my name is Dan Harte. Long time racer, ISDE guy and father of 2 JR racers. I recently decided to get more involved with the OMRA to give back a little to the sport that has given me many great memories. This involvement currently is as a member of the new Competition Committee.

My history with Scott. Known him for probably 30 years well before he became a promoter, always got along well. I respect him and Debbie and what they do for us as riders.

I am speaking from my point of view not as a OMRA rep.

The situation sucks.... but I will elaberate a little.

Nobody should argue that OTBG did not do their best to provide a good event. They did IMO and I believe most everyone is grateful for the extra efforts. The triggering event was moving the race forward on the schedule. A protest was filed by a card carrying OMRA member participating in the series for points who was caught off guard by the change. A precedent was set a couple years ago in a simular situation, this could NOT be ignored. The result in that protest was to toss the points for the effected class. I hope we ultimately find a better solution this time. But I can find no way of dismissing this protest and it would seem the process is still working and final decision has not been rendered.

At no time have I ever considered this a protest against the OTBG. Just an unfortunate situation that happened at one of their events. Not sure why nothing was learned the first time however. I wasn't involve then.

As far as the protesting rider being a D Bag? I don't even know the riders name but I bet they are not the type to go on a public forum and call other names. Just sayin. But if you find a reason to file a protest some day I would like to believe you will get the same careful consideration I have tried to give to this situation. Or maybe we should just blow it off because your a D Bag. Or maybe half the information needs to be spread on a public forum for quick judgement by your pers.

As far as he should have been there an hour early? Well I think he was but if its OK to move the race forward an hour why not 3? See a problem with that?

As far as the riders effected by the ealier race being postponed and merged with the early starting afternoon race. No protest was filed so it was not discussed. We can "what if" the crap out of this but I tried to focus on the actual protest, rules in place and precedent that had been set.

As far as was the proper procedure followed? Not sure but I think so. If lessons need to be learned to better handle situation in the future I am open to the change. ID the problem, fix it. No need to beat up on each other.

At first glance the changes OTBG have made to their schedule look to address this and should keep us from dealing with it again. Manditory meeting held 1/2 hour before each race. Well done.

Lets all group hug and get back to racing.

Dan

Edited by dlharte

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