350 vs 450... Fro's commentary was perfect!

[Racer X 317]

Not sure I fully follow your logic here. The 450 DOES feel lite against any metric that you want to compare. They have set the bar, IMO. I had one I might add. I'm not sure I quite understand your comment regarding the 350 as being a perfect 250 2 stroke. A 250 2 stroke is 20 lbs lighter and faster (with more torque and HP) than the 350. That's really hard for me to appreciate your comments. If I knew inadvance, I would have opted for the lighter 2 stroke for the reasons I mentioned or just stick with a lightweight 450. I too like riding the 350 pegged (all the time), but there are days when I just don't feel interested in revving the bike to get it to go. Again, I still feel if the 350 had more 450 like engine characteristics, this would all be a mute point, but I never gathered from KTM marketing efforts that I was buying a heavy, yet faster version of their 250F. I would have prefered a lighter, similarly torqed version of their 450. ?

Simple comparison to 250 2 stroke... Light feel, carves a turn, minimal engine braking and fun to ride like the two stroke.

Advantages over the 2 stroke that makes it perfect for me... Again similar to the 2 stroke as listed above PLUS much better and more usable power.

I have ridden all of the new 450's... The Honda feels lightest of all the 450's but it still feels heavier and harder to turn than the 350 by far.

Last, I play ride my 350 without a problem and don't have to "ring it's neck" all of the time to have fun on it. I would really have to slug around to not have fun on this bike... If I slugged around on a 450 I wouldn't have fun at all either though.. That's why it comes down to personal preference and these are simply some of the reasons I love this bike.

[twenty34]

Simple comparison to 250 2 stroke... Light feel, carves a turn, minimal engine braking and fun to ride like the two stroke.

Advantages over the 2 stroke that makes it perfect for me... Again similar to the 2 stroke as listed above PLUS much better and more usable power.

I have ridden all of the new 450's... The Honda feels lightest of all the 450's but it still feels heavier and harder to turn than the 350 by far.

Last, I play ride my 350 without a problem and don't have to "ring it's neck" all of the time to have fun on it. I would really have to slug around to not have fun on this bike... If I slugged around on a 450 I wouldn't have fun at all either though.. That's why it comes down to personal preference and these are simply some of the reasons I love this bike.

Here's where we disagree -I feel the usable power is where this bike is largely deficient. This powerband needs help! The low end is anemic and it has no torque. It also feels much larger and heavier than a 250.

Interesting. I found the only way to have fun on it is the "ring it's neck".

[grunkthump]

the low end is anemic COMPARED TO WHAT?? riding back to back with ANY of the new 250f's here in MN at 1K above sea level the 350 has a BUNCH more bottom and a bunch more torque!! It is all relative imho.

[twenty34]

the low end is anemic COMPARED TO WHAT?? riding back to back with ANY of the new 250f's here in MN at 1K above sea level the 350 has a BUNCH more bottom and a bunch more torque!! It is all relative imho.

Let me ask - which class does the 350 compete in? The 250 or the 450 class? This will help answer your question.

[Private B]

I'm thinking it takes a more skilled rider to ride the 350 to it's potential. Short is finishing right where he would be on a 450. I think with RV's riding style, he would be just as strong as he is now on the big kawi. Dungey seems more of a 450 rider with his smooth style as does Reed.

[DMauro]

no way short is fighting for top 10,he would be taking 4th every race if he was on his honda

[twenty34]

no way short is fighting for top 10,he would be taking 4th every race if he was on his honda

Agree...Short led more laps and had holeshots while coming so close to winning many races last year.

[JJRace]

So you missed the commercial with Emig endorsing the KX450F then??? Jeff is trying to be pro sport and endorsing about any new idea that is good for the sport and talk.

If a pro cannot handle the 450 power, then they are out of shape. Never hear the top guys complaining about the 450 power. Average joe, what ever you want to run. 125-250-350-400-450.

[Racer X 317]

Agree...Short led more laps and had holeshots while coming so close to winning many races last year.

Soo.... where has Metcalfe finished all this year? He was also a contender for wins last year and he is running 5th-10th every race. Sounds similar to where Short is now too. There is a list of very fast riders finishing in front of those guys that were out with injuries last year. The 450 class is stacked any way you look at it and to bust into the top 4 this year is very, very tough. I'm doubtful that Stewert could consistently beat Dungey, Reed and RV. Even Millsaps is up there with his lap times, its too bad he just isn't in as good of shape.

Back to the thread... too many people rely solely on the torque of the 450's to bail them out due to poor line choices and general bad habits. If you carry your speed better in the turns via line choice and technique... you don't need the blast of power to take you from a dead stop to a descent speed. I would suggest going to an MX School such as Travis Preston's MX School or Gary Bailey's School. You could also use a RipXX GPS Trainer to easily show you what lines carry the most speed and what line in a turn is faster through the turn at a much lower cost than a school as well...The GPS system tracks your lines within 1 foot and will tell you exactly what is the fastest line no matter what bike you ride. However, you need to know how to carry speed to test the different lines in the first place, so refer back to TP or GB schools listed above. My 8 year old on his 65 can flow through a turn faster than most 450 riders that are almost coming to a stop and making a big ole "L" out of the turns. That 65 doesn't have much torque either.

My stock 350 has plenty of torque, a ton of mid range and revs to the moon unlike many of the 450's. I'm not the fastest vet rider, but I know how to carry my speed. Not to mention that my stock 350 eats 450's alive off the start with my fat butt on the saddle. I'm 205 on a stock 350 and it hauls me around like a champ and handles like a dream with my WMR1.com suspension!

Again, to each his own. The 450's are awesome bikes and there are a ton of riders out there that ride them extremely well in the amateur ranks all the way through to the Pros. Is anyone using all of the power... no, but its there if they need it. I just choose the 350 for all the points that I and others have stated throughout this post. We all just enjoy riding at our own levels to go out and have fun on whatever bike makes us happy. The 350 just happens to fit my definition of "the most fun I've ever had on a motorcycle"... so I choose the very exciting and fun 350.

[Private B]

no way short is fighting for top 10,he would be taking 4th every race if he was on his honda

You're high.

Short is at his peak,no matter whether it be on a 450 or the 350. The other guys he was beating last year are just getting faster. It cracks me up how people think just because a rider ran where they did last year means they'll do the same the following. New riders come in, younger riders mature a bit and older riders peak out.

[grunkthump]

not to mention he is fighting some family (child) issues that could easily be messing him up a bit on the bike imho

[DMauro]

im high,its always the spade calling the spade! he peaked last year just like metcalf. metcalf just came of an injury and hes moving up every week. he just took a fourth. as far as short he was taking seconds so i put reed and villi in there so fourth is where he should be not tenth. so put that cheep mexican bud down.

[Private B]

im high,its always the spade calling the spade! he peaked last year just like metcalf. metcalf just came of an injury and hes moving up every week. he just took a fourth. as far as short he was taking seconds so i put reed and villi in there so fourth is where he should be not tenth. so put that cheep mexican bud down.

What happens after you peak?

[DMauro]

you get stuck with a ktm 350! the only ride he could get paid to ride. lol!!

[DMauro]

i have to refrase my other post i dont now if they peaked last year or its the bike, metcalf was from injury and hes coming back now and if he stays healthy maybe a podium buy end of year. also the honda 450 is a sick bike stock the facorty bike is the best out there so to say its not the bike is just flat out wrong. i didnt ask short but i asked alessi, and he told me "i hope i get to ride the 450 outdoors" so if someone could ask short behind closed door what bike do you think you could do better on your old factory honda or you ktm 350.

[jjm525]

Funny, I recall back a few years there was a rider or two who had the fastest lap times at a National or two on a 125.

RC, Stewart or Pastrana? Maybe all of them? Definetly RC and JS on KX125s IIRC.

Put the fastest rider on the 350 and he will win, look at Europe.?

Matters little to me, at our local tracks my lap times were identical when I switched from 250f to 450f. I doubt the 350 would be any different after you adjust to it. At those same tracks I've seen retired 450 pros beat all the local talent on a straight off the dealer floor YZ250.

[DMauro]

lap times on an open track! its not to eay to pass a 450 on a 350. reed just said it was hard to pass a 450 on a 450. laps time the same on waldens track not up the hills of dilla!

[twenty34]

you get stuck with a ktm 350! the only ride he could get paid to ride. lol!!

:ride:

?

[twenty34]

Soo.... where has Metcalfe finished all this year? He was also a contender for wins last year and he is running 5th-10th every race. Sounds similar to where Short is now too.

Great points...BOTH rode HONDA's last year! ??

[jjm525]

lap times on an open track! its not to eay to pass a 450 on a 350. reed just said it was hard to pass a 450 on a 450. laps time the same on waldens track not up the hills of dilla!

The lap times of those 125s were during the 125 national motos! A knobby will only transfer so much HP. A 350 can holeshot a moto and the Euros have massive hills, the 350 won there and won ALOT! How is it a inferior machine if it still can regularly beat 30 of the top 40 riders/bikes on the National MX scene?

P.S., I doubt my lap times would be any different on either bike on dilla's hills either, too much chicken in my DNA! ?