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Counter Sprocket Oil Seal (Help) :(

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My 2006 CRF450R has been leaking a bit of fluid around the counter sprocket.

I bought a replacement sleeve, and oil seal. Tonight I figured it would be a 30 minute job.

90 minutes into to it the oil seal still won't come out. Well it's coming out, but in pieces. What the heck I'm I doing wrong? I'm using a pick tool (like you would see at a dentist) because I was told that was the easiest route to go. It worked great on the oil seal for the gear shift.

I'm at wits end now. :smashpc:

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I've owned bikes for 30 years, and I'm embarassed to say I was picking at the outer seal. My $5 fix will probably cost for $600 now. The engine will need to be split to get to the seal and replace it.

Life sucks sometimes.

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there are a bunch of threads on that subject, i have used a small flathead screwdriver to pry the seal out AFTER you have pulled the colar off. Be aware there is a T-H-I-N seal in a groove of this colar. be sure it all goes back the same way or you can mush that thin seal.

PS: it is doubtfull a few rubber bits will harm the transmission.. just drain the oil each ride a couple times and strain it to see if any came out of the 12mm drain plug hole.

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there are a bunch of threads on that subject, i have used a small flathead screwdriver to pry the seal out AFTER you have pulled the colar off. Be aware there is a T-H-I-N seal in a groove of this colar. be sure it all goes back the same way or you can mush that thin seal.

PS: it is doubtfull a few rubber bits will harm the transmission.. just drain the oil each ride a couple times and strain it to see if any came out of the 12mm drain plug hole.

It wasn't the small seal that I was picking at brother. It's was the larger collar seal that is about twice the size. I'm told I have to pull the engine now.:smashpc:

Never in my life have I done something so stupid.

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Don't go to a dealer. Go to an independent or race shop and see if they have any ideas. I have changed a bunch of these without having any issues, but i am not envisioning in my head what you could of done to require the case to be split.

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It wasn't the small seal that I was picking at brother. It's was the larger collar seal that is about twice the size. I'm told I have to pull the engine now.:smashpc:

Never in my life have I done something so stupid.

what? someone is totally bullshitting you dude. Post A PHOTO. I can't imagine you can't just drain the oil a few times (trans side of course) and see what comes out. a little rubber won't hurt. It s the TRANS side!

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Not that I'm an authority on motorcycles, but I myself own a 2004 450R, and I have replaced that exact same seal on mine...

Whoever told you that you have to split the cases to replace/fix that seal is smoking crack, plain and simple. I too fought that seal for about 45 minutes when i pulled mine. I used a pick, a razor blade, and a fine tip flat blade. I also had a round-end brush that I continually dipped in gas to help flow the little chunks (yep, it came out in little chunks) out of the recessed area. That seal is a PITA to remove, at least it was for me, but I changed the trans fluid out when I was done, and it's been good since then.

I just looked at a part fiche for the transmission exploded view. It wouldn't even make sense to split the cases to extract that seal. I'm betting that you didn't do squat to hurt the internals of that motor, and whoever told you to split the cases must not know too much about the exact location of the countershaft seal.

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i think you guys are trying to remove the seal without removing the COLAR that slides over the countershaft.. that would make that seal quite difficult to remove.

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I had removed the collar and o-ring prior to removing the seal itself, but I'm pretty sure it was the original countershaft seal; it had some serious attachment issues.

I got it out, but not without a fight! But, all the same, there is no reason whatsoever to split the cases. That seal is definitely external only.

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hodgey is right. this is an external seal and can be removed once the cs sprocket is removed. we used a b.f.h. and a brass drift. scalejockey on here had it out in minutes after i ****ed with it for an hour. pm scalejockey on here if you have more ?s

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The issue was the bearing seal, not the countershaft seal. You know the seal on the outside of the countershaft collar.

A buddy of mine who works on these bikes has the time to split the case and fix. My job dictates right now that time off is not an option that often, so he bought it was it. It was better than forking out major money for the repair.

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The issue was the bearing seal, not the countershaft seal. You know the seal on the outside of the countershaft collar.

A buddy of mine who works on these bikes has the time to split the case and fix. My job dictates right now that time off is not an option that often, so he bought it was it. It was better than forking out major money for the repair.

bearing seal? on the countershaft? negative. Not that i know of anyway.. there is no seal that can not be replaced from the outside before the countershaft bearing. part 3, 32 and 33 all come out quite easily once you remove the countershaft sprocket. The colar and seal 32 slide off together (sometimes seal 32 sticks on the shaft adn you pull it off) then you can get a screwdriver inside seal 33 that was leaking.. You likely sold your bike for no reason.

http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID/26/Type/TRANSMISSION_/MakeID/1/Make/Honda/YearID/49/Year/2008/ModelID/8112/Model/CRF450R/GroupID/386468/Group/TRANSMISSION_

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The is the seal I'm talking about.

CS.jpg

It's the outer ring. Melk your saying this will come out from the outside. Mine is in a hundred pieces. The shop manual says it goes on from the inside. I'm not arguing, but if your right I'll dig at it some more tonight.

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The is the seal I'm talking about.

CS.jpg

It's the outer ring. Melk your saying this will come out from the outside. Mine is in a hundred pieces. The shop manual says it goes on from the inside. I'm not arguing, but if your right I'll dig at it some more tonight.

Reef.. i have done this seal 2 x on my bikes. It does NOT require any case splitting. Someone was feeding you a line to buy your bike cheap or they don't know any better.

That metal colar SLIDES OUT and behind it in a recessed ridge, is a thin inner seal that ALSO comes out easily. This then leaves a 1/3" gap or so between the splined countershaft and the cs seal that you then pop out.

You must have been trying to dig that seal out without removing the colar.. Did you look at the link to the microfishe i posted?? What is in 100 piecses? the metal colar or the rubber seal?

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Reef.. i have done this seal 2 x on my bikes. It does NOT require any case splitting. Someone was feeding you a line to buy your bike cheap or they don't know any better.

That metal colar SLIDES OUT and behind it in a recessed ridge, is a thin inner seal that ALSO comes out easily. This then leaves a 1/3" gap or so between the splined countershaft and the cs seal that you then pop out.

You must have been trying to dig that seal out without removing the colar.. Did you look at the link to the microfishe i posted?? What is in 100 piecses? the metal colar or the rubber seal?

I pulled the inner collar. and pulled and pulled on that outer seal. The old seal in 100 pieces Bro.

The person buying the bike is a good friend. He hasn't picked it up, but he told me if I decided to hold on to her that was ok. The dealer told me I had to split the case. My friend was trying to do me a favor. I sprayed the seal with WD-40. It just won't budge. Your saying a small screwdriver would be the best method. I was using a dental pik.

Thanks a ton for all the help. It gives me hope.

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I pulled the inner collar. and pulled and pulled on that outer seal. The old seal in 100 pieces Bro.

The person buying the bike is a good friend. He hasn't picked it up, but he told me if I decided to hold on to her that was ok. The dealer told me I had to split the case. My friend was trying to do me a favor. I sprayed the seal with WD-40. It just won't budge. Your saying a small screwdriver would be the best method. I was using a dental pik.

Thanks a ton for all the help. It gives me hope.

with the colar out, just work on getting the rest of the seal out with whatever you can. yea, a thin sharp pick would have pulled through the rubber..

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You guys rock!

I did exactly what was suggested this evening.

It me about 2 hours, but the new seal is on. It's not 100% flush, but I'm not seeing any leaks yet. I imagine the little but of the seal I couldn't get too is keeping it from going flush. It's in there tight, so I'm not worried.

My plan is too ride it this weekend and change the tranny oil afterwards. I called the guy buying it from me (good friend), and he said to keep until the KTM arrives that I'm looking for.

Looks like Croom this weekend!

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Glad to hear you got it man!, They can definitely be a pain, but they are not impossible, as you found out. Mine came out in pieces, and yeah, I used a sharp pick that went right through the rib of the seal. again. and again. and again. Probably was 20+ chunks of seal, followed by lotsa cleaning of the remaining pieces in the recessed area

It's like snaking a drain; either it all comes out at once, or bit, by bit, by :thumbsup:-ing bit! But, as long as the new seal is packed with grease and bottomed out in the recess, you're good to go!:smashpc:

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