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California Clear creek on CH7

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Did any one see the report on clear creek tonight on ch7? Did not hear any think new about it but at least people are not forgetting about it. We need CC back!

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Left out all the meat of the total injustice...if they were even half right everyone in bakersfield should be dying of cancer.

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I watched it and can say they favored our side, which is huge considering the media today.

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Those EPA officials make me sick.

If there really was a risk, so many old timer Clear Creek riders would be dying right now of

asbestos cancer.

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I agree, it is stupidly frustrating that places are closed down, but its not just the EPA, you can also blame the lawyers (and probably a ton of other people and agencies). But because the EPA has a set of documents that says the levels are harmful if the EPA didn't act and someone did get proven lung cancer from riding there, you can grantee there would be one hell of a class action lawsuit. (wow, like that run-on) I don't think any gov. agency wants to be in that position. Although most government agencies tend to be reactive and not proactive, the EPA took the proactive approach.

It would be awesome if they could reopen Clear Creek and have everyone sign a waiver before riding that was bullet proof in the court of law, but we all know a good firm can work around any waiver.

Sorry for hording this thread, I'll stop now with my opinions and get back to work.

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The only documents that the EPA has stating that there is a health hazard at Clear Creek are trumped up BS based on junk science. The type of naturally occurring asbestos present at Clear Creek has never been proven to be a health hazard, unless of course they exaggerate the exposure levels to something high enough that anything would be hazardous.

Don't drink the koolaid, just because a couple of government bureaucracies say it's so doesn't mean it really is. The California OHV Commission funded an independent study that completely refuted the EPA's findings. Of course since the EPA is basically an omnipotent federal agency they simply refused to accept the evidence that proved them to be wrong.

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If the BLM truely believed that it was a health hazard they would not still allow their employess to operate within Clear Creek day-in and day-out without any respitory protection.

On one hand they say it is safe for their employees, but on the other they claim it is too dangerous for the public.

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The only documents that the EPA has stating that there is a health hazard at Clear Creek are trumped up BS based on junk science. The type of naturally occurring asbestos present at Clear Creek has never been proven to be a health hazard, unless of course they exaggerate the exposure levels to something high enough that anything would be hazardous.

Don't drink the koolaid, just because a couple of government bureaucracies say it's so doesn't mean it really is. The California OHV Commission funded an independent study that completely refuted the EPA's findings. Of course since the EPA is basically an omnipotent federal agency they simply refused to accept the evidence that proved them to be wrong.

I know someone dear to my heart that has her masters degree from UCD and her thesis was specialized in natural occurring asbestos in soils. And now works for a company that analyzes air samples for harmful asbestos (primarily in construction sites). For her thesis she was able to take soil samples from Clear Creek and analyze them. No she didn't come to the conclusion that the samples will cause cancer. But she told me in layman's terms that there is a lot of asbestos fibers in the samples and they are nasty, but not as bad as those in El Dorado Hills. So no, I have not sipped on any Koolaid. And what is "Junk Science"? I wish they had that field of study when I was in college.

So as I said before go ride there, but I won't. That should be a good thing for you, one less rider on your trails.

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I know someone dear to my heart that has her masters degree from UCD and her thesis was specialized in natural occurring asbestos in soils. And now works for a company that analyzes air samples for harmful asbestos (primarily in construction sites). For her thesis she was able to take soil samples from Clear Creek and analyze them. No she didn't come to the conclusion that the samples will cause cancer. But she told me in layman's terms that there is a lot of asbestos fibers in the samples and they are nasty, but not as bad as those in El Dorado Hills. So no, I have not sipped on any Koolaid. And what is "Junk Science"? I wish they had that field of study when I was in college.

So as I said before go ride there, but I won't. That should be a good thing for you, one less rider on your trails.

:smashpc:

firetheliars.jpg

There are source data links somewhere...looking...

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That's a pretty cool diagram, I believe all the charts and diagrams I see on the web...

The 0.003 fibers/cc is what they recorded for ambient air at CC. OSHA mandates that anything more than 0.1 fibers/cc per 8 hours of exposure is unhealthy. So yes it should be fine to hang out at CC if you don't generate any dust...ie ride during the rainy season. If you continue to read, the EPA report from May 2008 you will find out more. The agency only recorded the asbestos fibers that were longer than 5 microns which are more commonly linked to asbestos causing diseases. Dirt biking and ATV riding were recorded at more than 0.3 fibers/cc. That is 3 times higher than OSHA standards.

http://www.epa.gov/Region9/toxic/noa/clearcreek/pdf/CCMARiskDoc24Apr08-withoutAppxG.pdf

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No. Cigarettes are also known to cause lung cancer, does everyone that smokes develop lung cancer?...No. There are also a lot of documents that prove that cigarettes don't cause lung cancer.

I'm not the EPA, I'm not OSHA, and I'm not an asbestos expert. I've never ridden CC, but from what I've heard and read it sounds like one of the better places to ride in the US. It sucks that it is closed, and I understand why all the old timers who have great memories are super pissed, I don't blame them as they aren't suffering from lung cancer, and neither are their friends.

But the fact that a rider is exposed to 3 times the OSHA standard of f/cc, and there is recorded documentation of it is excellent grounds for a lawyer to sue if someone did come down with an asbestos causing disease. Can they quarantine Bakersfield?...no, can they quarantine El Dorado Hills...No? But they can much easier close an OHV park.

There is a new study out from 2010 or 2011, maybe there is new, different evidence. I have not had any time to read it. So I'm sorry if my data is outdated.

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So is there a higher incidence (cluster) of cancer in these areas?

..I am unaware of it, how long have have people been living in these areas?

Reality just hasn't matched up with what they have reported.

Edited by rxbandit

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I'm unaware of any asbestos caused cancer in those areas, plus most of those cities are paved over. But honestly don't feel like investigating because I don't feel like it is pertinent to CC. I was only making that comment due to your slightly skewed jpg.

On another note...I'd be curious to see how the workers from the old Atlas Asbestos Mine are holding up. The mine close in 1980, right? That is around 31 years since some of the miners were exposed. Does any one know where I might be able to find information regarding the old miners?

I'd suggest you read about mesothelioma, it sounds like symptoms can take 20-50 years to surface making it one of the more deadly cancers.

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There is a new study out from 2010 or 2011, maybe there is new, different evidence. I have not had any time to read it. So I'm sorry if my data is outdated.

The OHMVR Division had an independent study done at Clear Creek. The results and response from the BLM/EPA can be found here:

http://ohv.parks.ca.gov/default.asp?page_id=1140

Those of us that have been active in trying to reopen Clear Creek have found NO instances of asbestos related deaths or illness from exposure the the chrysotile form of asbestos in the Clear Creek area. The BLM/EPA has not identified anyone either.

http://www.mercurynews.com/california/ci_18980434?nclick_check=1

A similar deadly trend was reported in August about Yosemite, after prominent incidents at Half Dome and Vernal Fall. Since then, six more people have died at Yosemite, bringing the park's total for the year to 20 fatalities.

As at Yosemite, many of the deaths on forest lands are water-related, including instances in which people were swept into creeks and drowned.

Should Yosemite be closed to prevent deaths??

Ride on

Brewster

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Should Yosemite be closed to prevent deaths??

Yes. We must protect the children.

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